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Why People Initially Suck at Programming

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21–30 of 41 posts

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#21
post #17

This is a pretty poor article on the whole. These "reasons" aren't supported by anything other than conjecture. Should be titled "10 reasons why I think it could be that some people suck at programming, based on my personal biases on the topic and on no actual data." On top of that, the writing is loose, the ideas aren't really thought through. Basically, it's just someone's spontaneous, unrefined brain fart on the t…

Yeah, I have to concur. It's sloppy writing. If the author had focused on, say, three thoughtful ideas on why programming is hard for beginners, along with some remedies, he might have turned out something of value. Instead, the stretch for hitting the magic linkbait number of 10 gets us a fairly mediocre exploration of an important, interesting topic.

Incidentally, the comment thread here turned up some great discussion on why programming is so hard for beginners, so gg, HN.

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#22
post #10
post #2

One of the biggest mistakes I see a lot of beginners make, is that they don't break the problem up into sub problems that they can easily solve. What I always tell students is to write some code, and then test it right away. Too many students try and solve the entire problem without compiling once, and then they are bewildered when they have 1000 errors because they forgot a semicolon at the end of each line.

After a few years of teaching new recruits how to program, this still amazes me: so many people will go a day without compiling once! I mean, I've been programming professionally for 7 years, and much more before. But whenever I need to do something that I haven't done in the last week or so, I still always start with a tiny function to make sure I still remember how to do even the basic stuff, and build from there.…

That's pretty much exactly what I do too- I'll start with maybe 10-15 lines before testing. I don't know why ANYONE would go a day without compiling or running

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#23
post #17

This is a pretty poor article on the whole. These "reasons" aren't supported by anything other than conjecture. Should be titled "10 reasons why I think it could be that some people suck at programming, based on my personal biases on the topic and on no actual data." On top of that, the writing is loose, the ideas aren't really thought through. Basically, it's just someone's spontaneous, unrefined brain fart on the t…

@swombat

I'm the actual author but thanks for the feedback I'll put it into good use. I'm new into this type of writing so I was expecting my first article to be not that great.

Either way, its helped me a lot since I've learned in ways I could improve further articles.

But why did you mention it to be a piece of linkbaiting trash? Links posted were to support my reasons. Also, I didn't collect any data since this was done through the help of other programmers so its not really a brain fart in the sense.

And poor? Honestly, I don't think its that bad.

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#24
post #17

This is a pretty poor article on the whole. These "reasons" aren't supported by anything other than conjecture. Should be titled "10 reasons why I think it could be that some people suck at programming, based on my personal biases on the topic and on no actual data." On top of that, the writing is loose, the ideas aren't really thought through. Basically, it's just someone's spontaneous, unrefined brain fart on the t…

@swombat I'm the actual author but thanks for the feedback I'll put it into good use. I'm new into this type of writing so I was expecting my first article to be not that great. Either way, its helped me a lot since I've learned in ways I could improve further articles. But why did you mention it to be a piece of linkbaiting trash? Links posted were to support my reasons. Also, I didn't collect any data since this wa…

I think maybe you're unfamiliar with the term "linkbaiting." It refers to an article that is sensational and uses attention-grabbing techniques to get people to link to it.

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#25
Why do people initially suck at brain surgery?

Why do they initially suck at Super Mario Brothers?

Why do they initially suck at playing piano?

...

Not sure if I should tell the old Carnegie Hall joke or link to that Gladwell book...

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#26
post #17

This is a pretty poor article on the whole. These "reasons" aren't supported by anything other than conjecture. Should be titled "10 reasons why I think it could be that some people suck at programming, based on my personal biases on the topic and on no actual data." On top of that, the writing is loose, the ideas aren't really thought through. Basically, it's just someone's spontaneous, unrefined brain fart on the t…

@swombat I'm the actual author but thanks for the feedback I'll put it into good use. I'm new into this type of writing so I was expecting my first article to be not that great. Either way, its helped me a lot since I've learned in ways I could improve further articles. But why did you mention it to be a piece of linkbaiting trash? Links posted were to support my reasons. Also, I didn't collect any data since this wa…

"I'm the actual author but thanks for the feedback I'll put it into good use. I'm new into this type of writing so I was expecting my first article to be not that great...And poor? Honestly, I don't think its that bad."

Your final remark is the best way to guarantee you never write anything great. You begin by saying you appreciate the feedback but end saying you think it wasn't bad.

The better way to close, instead of getting defensive:

"How could I have done this better?"

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@swombat I'm the actual author but thanks for the feedback I'll put it into good use. I'm new into this type of writing so I was expecting my first article to be not that great. Either way, its helped me a lot since I've learned in ways I could improve further articles. But why did you mention it to be a piece of linkbaiting trash? Links posted were to support my reasons. Also, I didn't collect any data since this wa…

"I'm the actual author but thanks for the feedback I'll put it into good use. I'm new into this type of writing so I was expecting my first article to be not that great...And poor? Honestly, I don't think its that bad." Your final remark is the best way to guarantee you never write anything great. You begin by saying you appreciate the feedback but end saying you think it wasn't bad. The better way to close, instead…

I mentioned it wasn't as bad as the initial comment.

I appreciate the constructive criticism. Next time I'll make sure I deliver on what everyone is saying.

And linkbaiting, why lie? I tried it out for a reason but ultimately I only chose ten because I received 10 reasons from other people. They all weren't only "my" ideas. I mentioned it at the end of the post.

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#28
post #17

This is a pretty poor article on the whole. These "reasons" aren't supported by anything other than conjecture. Should be titled "10 reasons why I think it could be that some people suck at programming, based on my personal biases on the topic and on no actual data." On top of that, the writing is loose, the ideas aren't really thought through. Basically, it's just someone's spontaneous, unrefined brain fart on the t…

@swombat I'm the actual author but thanks for the feedback I'll put it into good use. I'm new into this type of writing so I was expecting my first article to be not that great. Either way, its helped me a lot since I've learned in ways I could improve further articles. But why did you mention it to be a piece of linkbaiting trash? Links posted were to support my reasons. Also, I didn't collect any data since this wa…

That "type of writing" is despised in some circles.

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#29
post #17

This is a pretty poor article on the whole. These "reasons" aren't supported by anything other than conjecture. Should be titled "10 reasons why I think it could be that some people suck at programming, based on my personal biases on the topic and on no actual data." On top of that, the writing is loose, the ideas aren't really thought through. Basically, it's just someone's spontaneous, unrefined brain fart on the t…

@swombat I'm the actual author but thanks for the feedback I'll put it into good use. I'm new into this type of writing so I was expecting my first article to be not that great. Either way, its helped me a lot since I've learned in ways I could improve further articles. But why did you mention it to be a piece of linkbaiting trash? Links posted were to support my reasons. Also, I didn't collect any data since this wa…

The whole article feels loose and disconnected - probably as a result of the way you sourced the ideas. If you got them emailed in by different people, it's no surprise that it feels like a collection of unrelated points rather than like a cohesive article.

That's another problem with these points, too. They're not the result of some reflection to come up with some key reasons why people suck at programming, they're just the first things that popped into the heads of the people who emailed you. Because of this, the article goes only skin-deep in what would otherwise be an interesting topic. Instead of insight, it provides only a superficial list of obvious, unresearched ideas. This kind of content may fly on a general interest site, but on a site like HN, which is filled with programmers who have spent time thinking about why programming is hard, it is just bad.

Let's take one of the "points" apart:

Before I help anyone with their code, I ask to see their algorithm. If they can’t provide it, I tell them to develop one and nearly all the time they’ll figure out why their program didn’t work.

Huh, what? That doesn't even make sense. Most programs don't involve much or any algorithmic design. Are you sure you know what an algorithm is? Or what a program is? What kind of program are you talking about? How do people "show you" their algorithms? What does it even mean to "show the algorithms" for a Ruby-on-Rails app?

An algorithms is the framework, and basis, of a program. Many beginners don’t develop one, and write as it goes. When that happens, they lose track of their direction in solving the problem and it becomes difficult debugging. – Benjamin

Who's Benjamin? Why is his opinion relevant to this topic? Also, what a silly opinion. Most programmers I know, experts many of them, and myself included, do not spend time "developing their algorithm" before writing code. I assume by algorithm you mean pseudo-code of some sort. If you have to write pseudo-code before you can write real code, then you really do suck at programming. As a programmer, this point makes me feel that you don't know what you're talking about.

So next time, save yourself some time and jot your plan of attack on a piece of paper. Start programming until you know how to solve your problem. I do it, and it works amazingly.

Again... most programming problems are trivially easy once you know how to solve them, but in many cases you don't know how to solve them before you do it. And the language you "write your algorithm" in should be the language you're writing your program is. In this paragraph we also see an example of loose writing: "Start programming until you know how to solve your problem"... did you mean "Don't start programming...?" That would make more sense in the context of the article. This kind of mistake makes it hard to take the article seriously, because you're already on a flimsy basis to begin with.

You don’t want your program looking like this poor guy, Asimo falling down stairs, do you? So plan accordingly!

What a poor example! Most programmers with some intelligence would love to be able to write the insanely complex code responsible for allowing Asimo to fall down the stairs. AI code is some of the hardest on Earth, disrespecting that suggest you don't understand this basic point.

Re: Why People Initially Suck at Programming

#30
post #10
post #2

One of the biggest mistakes I see a lot of beginners make, is that they don't break the problem up into sub problems that they can easily solve. What I always tell students is to write some code, and then test it right away. Too many students try and solve the entire problem without compiling once, and then they are bewildered when they have 1000 errors because they forgot a semicolon at the end of each line.

After a few years of teaching new recruits how to program, this still amazes me: so many people will go a day without compiling once! I mean, I've been programming professionally for 7 years, and much more before. But whenever I need to do something that I haven't done in the last week or so, I still always start with a tiny function to make sure I still remember how to do even the basic stuff, and build from there.…

coding is very different kind of task, requiring a very different sort of approach, to the kinds of tasks most people are familiar with. most other tasks are no way near as exacting, etc. we are creatures of habit, we approach new tasks with the kinds of approaches we are familiar with using, and it simply takes time to learn how to approach programming.
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