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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

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Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#351

Post by sleavey »

sologoub wrote: post #334

Just spent two weeks on the other side of the border from Munich, in Austria. The article is very accurate on over the counter meds - you can’t get what you are used to in US. I caught a really nasty flu the first few days there and by end of the week was searching for something to ease the cough. The cough syrup I was able to buy tasted like rubber and did not contain the active ingredients you normally find in US.…

It's unclear cough medicines work at all, and if they do, it's probably only from the soothing effect of sticky liquid in your throat. In the UK the NHS recommends just making your own lemon and honey tea in favour of buying cough medicine [1].

[1] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/cough/

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#352

Post by kelnos »

tinokid wrote: post #321
znpy wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ask your doctor about... That freaks me out. The doctor is supposed to tell me what to assume, not the other way around. Also, I have seen too many stories of drug representative sellers with no background in medical sciences convincing doctors to prescribe a drug with many, more-or-less honest arguments.

The other bizarre and ludicrous thing about the constant "ask your doctor" refrain: how many US adults have a personal physician whom they see regularly enough to even be able to call the person "their doctor"? I'm willing to bet most people have a more substantial relationship with the barista at their local Starbucks than whoever happens to be on duty when they need to go to the doctor.

When I was a kid we all (including my parents) had regular doctors that we had a relationship with. These days a doctor visit for me is rare (once every couple years), so I wouldn't say I have a strong relationship with my doctor, but I do go to the same doctor every time.

I think this is pretty normal; many insurance plans in the US have the concept of a "primary physician" who you nominate as your go-to doc for general issues. (It's easy to change, though.)

I do have more of a relationship with some bartenders at my favorite bars, though; you're right about that.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#353

Post by kelnos »

woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

When I feel like I'm getting a cold, I take a multivitamin (or at least some vitamin C), maybe a Dayquil/Nyquil, and try to sleep as soon as I can. Nearly always solves the problem.

The homeopathy prescriptions are baffling to me. Have any of these gone through clinical trials? If not, I assume the doctors must be hoping for a placebo effect when they feel that prescribing something actually effective is overkill. At least I hope that's what's happening.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#354

Post by germanier »

kuschku wrote: post #333
ams6110 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it mandatory? If so, it's a tax in my book.

No. You can leave the public insurance system at any time, and get a private insurance. But if you have ever done so, you can never return into the public system.

You cannot leave at "any time". To qualify, you need to have an income of over 59k € or be a freelancer. For most others (which is most of the population) private insurance is not possible.

You can however purchase additional insurance on top of the public one.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#355

Post by alkonaut »

raverbashing wrote: post #34
maxxxxx wrote: post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

For migraine sufferers, not taking something as it starts to unfold will result in a very unpleasant experience that will take longer to resolve

Migraine is slightly different than post-op pain though. Post op pain is good pain. The treatment was the surgery, and the pain is expected. Minimizing it may make the treatment less effective (e.g. by exertion, lack of rest ect). With migraine, the painkiller is effectively the treatment.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#356

Post by kelnos »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #43
cal5k wrote: post #7

I had jaw surgery recently... while I wouldn't describe it as incredibly "painful", particularly since everything was numb (they have to slice through nerves for this procedure), it was really uncomfortable and stressful for a couple of days afterwards. I wasn't at all ashamed to take percocet after the surgery. Could I have lived without them? Sure. Did they turn me into an instant addict? Of course not. This story…

people experiencing legitimate pain are becoming casualties of our crackdown on "inappropriate" prescribing. Perhaps in America they are so easy with the opiates because people have a real or perceived need to get back to work. When I had to have two impacted wisdom teeth removed the pain and swelling was completely under control with ice bags, aspirin and two days off work. A low wage at-will worker in the US can't…

I'd hardly consider taking days off from work only to sit at home in pain to be "rest". I'm lucky enough that I can afford to take days off to rest when in pain post-surgery, but I'd still want something to help with the pain.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#357

Post by germanier »

ams6110 wrote: post #309
lispm wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's simply not the case. It is exactly for an US audience important, because the German system is vastly different: universal health care, regulated by the government, 99.9% coverage, run by a system of 100+ insurers and various health care providers. > Social insurance contributions are mandatory Mandatory is to be insured. > based on income in a range, or if one is privately insured one pays based on risk/age Fa…

> Mandatory is to be insured. While I will admit there are varying interpretation, for me, living in the USA, if I am mandated to pay for something, it's a tax. I take it that as a German, working in Germany, I could not "opt out" of all of this and just take my chances?

You can't opt-out completely. Some people (including probably most HN readers) can purchase highly-regulated private insurance instead but even that isn't possible for the vast majority of the population.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#358

Post by austrianguy »

sologoub wrote: post #334

Just spent two weeks on the other side of the border from Munich, in Austria. The article is very accurate on over the counter meds - you can’t get what you are used to in US. I caught a really nasty flu the first few days there and by end of the week was searching for something to ease the cough. The cough syrup I was able to buy tasted like rubber and did not contain the active ingredients you normally find in US.…

There is certainly a difference between 'just' a flu and something worse (sinus infection, and so on).

The body notices when there is something more to it than just a flu.

That's the point were you get yourself a nice appointment at your 'Hausarzt' (family doctor, sounds wrong tbh) and let yourself check thoroughly. If somethings wrong, you'll get your medicine. If not, well just get yourself some rest. Our social systems and working rights give you the freedom to be ill for a long time and not needing to worry about losing your job.

Maybe in the US you are so used to getting your painkillers and hardcore medicine for a simple flu (, and so on) that you cannot withstand some pain.

Most dentists don't prescribe you painkillers or even antibiotics after a wisdom tooth removal, even if it was a operation and not just pulling it out. Yes it hurts as hell, but just stay at home for 3-5 days, get some rest and live happily ever after.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#359

Post by nugga »

mschuetz wrote: post #344
dpflan wrote: post #67

This passage feels like it is premise of the article; the author eventually comes to terms with her tea-sipping and resting as recovery, and this doctor explains the reasoning behind the medical decision-making which is very clear (and mindful/thoughtful) I think. “To paraphrase him [German anesthesiologist], he said: ‘Pain is a part of life. We cannot eliminate it nor do we want to. The pain will guide you. You will…

"And please be careful with ibuprofen" Ibuprofen is what allows me to get out of the bed for the past 3 months. I'm not sure that doctor knows how bad pain can be without medication.

Without knowing your situation, plenty folks take (liberal amounts of) painkillers to numb the pain and thus never find out or work on the real cause of the pain.

Warmth and daily stretching, massage and exercise fixes most sore tight spots that, if left untreated, can escalate to chronic pain setting you up for an unending painkiller loop eventually making you a walking stiff.

Almost my whole body was a painful solid wreck until I started to work on it more or less every day. My lower back still has some tight achy spots but it's getting there. These days I can actually flex some muscles I had no idea I had or could control.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#360

Post by lispm »

ams6110 wrote: post #309
lispm wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's simply not the case. It is exactly for an US audience important, because the German system is vastly different: universal health care, regulated by the government, 99.9% coverage, run by a system of 100+ insurers and various health care providers. > Social insurance contributions are mandatory Mandatory is to be insured. > based on income in a range, or if one is privately insured one pays based on risk/age Fa…

> Mandatory is to be insured. While I will admit there are varying interpretation, for me, living in the USA, if I am mandated to pay for something, it's a tax. I take it that as a German, working in Germany, I could not "opt out" of all of this and just take my chances?

Everybody is insured. If you can't work, you are insured. If you are ill and not employed, you are insured. If you are a baby just born, you are insured. If you are a student, you are insured - either through your family or on your own. If you receive social security payments, you are insured. Basically everybody, 99.9% of the population is insured.

If you are employed you pay to the health care insurance or sickness fund directly. Your employer also pays. The money is not collected by the tax authorities and is not administrated by them. Still it is public regulated system.

If you are privately insured, you pay directly to the private insurance company. This may provide additional services or a better quality.

OTOH if you are not member of a private insurance, then you still can get additional insurances from those. For example you can insure yourself privately for certain health care services if you travel to foreign countries.

In Germany we would only consider something to be a tax, if we pay somehow to the tax administration. For example if one is a member of the catholic church - which is voluntary - then one will pay 'Kirchensteuer' - 'church tax'. This tax is collected with ones usual tax payments, by the tax authorities - for the catholic church. If you are not a member of a church, like the catholic church (or some others), one does not pay this tax. If you are a member of a free church, then the tax authorities don't collect money for them. If you want to be a member, it is expected that you pay more or less 'voluntary' directly to them.

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