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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

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Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#341

Post by cunningfatalist »

andrewksl wrote: post #315
woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

Whoa, seriously? Actual medical doctors will prescribe government-paid homeopathy?

Almost never. You have to specifically search out those doctors.

Or avoid them.

Sadly, many Germans believe in homeopathy...

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#342

Post by kelnos »

snotrockets wrote: post #289
sannee wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lethal dosage is equivalent to about 20 pills. It's really hard to accidentally eat 20 pills, especially when the usual does is about 4 per day...

Recommended dosage, which most people take more of – take two every couple of hours, and you're going to need a new liver. And when you're in pain, it's easy to loose count. Which is why in some countries, the maximum amount allowed over the counter is 16ct or so (sometimes a bit more when bought from a pharmacist who can make sure the buyer is aware of the dangers). It is irresponsible to sell a 1,000 ct bottle of p…

I just looked at my ibuprofen bottle and it says to take one 200mg tablet every 4-6 hours. That's 800-1200mg per day, which is not something to worry about.

Certainly if you ignore that and take a higher dose or take it more frequently you can have problems, but assuming you don't have existing liver issues and aren't drunk all the time, you need to take like 5x (or more) the recommended dose to run into any trouble. If you're that stupid, you deserve what's coming to you.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#343

Post by hvidgaard »

clwk wrote: post #294
jjeaff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if that doctor has ever had major surgery himself and been told not to use painkillers? Even if that is the case, pain seems to vary greatly in how it affects people. I would be very hesitant to tell someone that they should just let the pain "guide" them, because I have no idea what it is like for them.

I have a very relevant anecdote: My grandfather was an open-heart surgeon. In the days following surgery, he would always insist that his patients get up and take a short walk. They would not want to, but he insisted that this was an important and valuable part of recovery (in several dimension) and that they needed to push past resistance and force themselves to do it. Later in life, he underwent a surgery requiring…

I'm not sure we should forgo pain management after major surgeries, but the benefit of getting up and walk even just 50m a few times a day is well documented. So no, it isn't fun, but it is a highly beneficial thing to do.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#344

Post by mschuetz »

dpflan wrote: post #67

This passage feels like it is premise of the article; the author eventually comes to terms with her tea-sipping and resting as recovery, and this doctor explains the reasoning behind the medical decision-making which is very clear (and mindful/thoughtful) I think. “To paraphrase him [German anesthesiologist], he said: ‘Pain is a part of life. We cannot eliminate it nor do we want to. The pain will guide you. You will…

"And please be careful with ibuprofen"

Ibuprofen is what allows me to get out of the bed for the past 3 months. I'm not sure that doctor knows how bad pain can be without medication.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#345

Post by Double_a_92 »

woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

> homeopathics

Ah the good 1000€ per kilo magic sugar... I can't understand how healthcare can cover that!

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#346

Post by Double_a_92 »

Derbasti wrote: post #324
woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

This is not true. Doctors do not and must not prescribe Homeopathic stuff in Germany. If it is payed for by the government/healthcare, it has to be proven effective.

It's the same in Switzerland. Health Insurances pay for that shit... sigh

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#347

Post by kelnos »

wirrbel wrote: post #187
calvano915 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pharma ads play a role but hardly explain this behavior. I believe a primary aspect is simply that Americans (including myself) expect and are expected to fill every waking moment with productivity or similar, rather than having flexibility to take a few hours/days/etc off to allow for healing and/or exploration of causalities; we instead use coping strategies and even with lackluster results continue down that road,…

I think a lot of this behaviour can be attributed to how the US treats sick leave - unpaid. However, the quality and quantity of medication ads in the US has truly amazed me when I visited. I wouldn't want to be a hypochondriac over the big pond, because the TV ads were so suggestive.

Today I was walking around SF and saw a billboard for a medication, and it didn't say anywhere what the medication was for. Drug advertising in the US is simply baffling to me, and I'm American, even.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#348

Post by germanier »

Derbasti wrote: post #324
woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

This is not true. Doctors do not and must not prescribe Homeopathic stuff in Germany. If it is payed for by the government/healthcare, it has to be proven effective.

It is paid for voluntarily by many public health insurers as a so-called Satzungsleistung.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#349

Post by TomK32 »

ddebernardy wrote: post #101

Heroin was initially marketed as a non-addictive version of morphine. It was challenged by experts on the spot. But Bayer promoted it in ads as a remedy against cough and cold for children regardless. [1] In some sense they weren't first to come up with the idea - TIL ancient Egyptians used opium to stop children crying. [2] Anyway, IMO the real wtf is drug companies being allowed to advertise prescription drugs in t…

In German the name for papaver somniferum is Schlafmohn, Schlaf being the German word for sleep.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#350

Post by kelnos »

chrisper wrote: post #82
Coding_Cat wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ibuprofen and the like are also available from the supermarket in most of Europe. Codeine and the like are not, as they're prescription only but it's not a big trip to go to a pharmacy anywhere.

I live in Europe now, but lived in the US before. The difference is that buying medications is part of weekly grocery shopping in the US more or less. It is also how it is advertised all over the place. Besides, many medications that are prescription here (or are just smaller doses) are available in large doses in the US in grocery stores.

That's bizarre and not at all a part of my experience in the US. I go to the supermarket when I need things. If one of those things happens to be a medication (because I have an immediate need for it), then I'll buy it. Otherwise, I won't.
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