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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

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Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#321

Post by tinokid »

znpy wrote: post #268
jimjimjim wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is probably quite accurate. Looking at tv in various countries, they just don't have the pill advertisements like America does. ask your doctor about...

> ask your doctor about... That freaks me out. The doctor is supposed to tell me what to assume, not the other way around. Also, I have seen too many stories of drug representative sellers with no background in medical sciences convincing doctors to prescribe a drug with many, more-or-less honest arguments.

The other bizarre and ludicrous thing about the constant "ask your doctor" refrain: how many US adults have a personal physician whom they see regularly enough to even be able to call the person "their doctor"?

I'm willing to bet most people have a more substantial relationship with the barista at their local Starbucks than whoever happens to be on duty when they need to go to the doctor.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#322

Post by readhn »

i had a surgical procedure years ago. one of the most painful experiences (during recovery), i felt like putting dynamite into my mouth and exploding it.. this is when i first tried Vicodin. it was a total life saver. and no i did not become addicted from taking 3-4 pills to manage extreme pain. this is the only time i took such strong pain killer. im glad these pain killers are readily available option in USA(filled in 20min at local CVS).

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#323

Post by readhn »

mnm1 wrote: post #133

Well, I suppose in Germany they also have a week of vacation, sick leave, or disability to take off while feeling this pain and drinking tea. When that's the case in the U.S., let's revisit this. Till then, let's hold off on the moral judgements when the reality is some of us literally have to go back the same day to work as the surgery. I've only taken pain killers once for a bad dental abscess that my dentist was t…

pain management is a thing here in USA. does not sound like its a thing in Germany. just suck it up i guess.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#324

Post by Derbasti »

woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

This is not true. Doctors do not and must not prescribe Homeopathic stuff in Germany. If it is payed for by the government/healthcare, it has to be proven effective.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#325

Post by freshyill »

clwk wrote: post #294
jjeaff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if that doctor has ever had major surgery himself and been told not to use painkillers? Even if that is the case, pain seems to vary greatly in how it affects people. I would be very hesitant to tell someone that they should just let the pain "guide" them, because I have no idea what it is like for them.

I have a very relevant anecdote: My grandfather was an open-heart surgeon. In the days following surgery, he would always insist that his patients get up and take a short walk. They would not want to, but he insisted that this was an important and valuable part of recovery (in several dimension) and that they needed to push past resistance and force themselves to do it. Later in life, he underwent a surgery requiring…

I had my gallbladder removed a few years ago. It required a major incision and I was in the hospital for five days after surgery. I had to get up and walk a lap around the hallway a few times a day. I felt it get easier every day, but those first few times were excruciating.

It was good that they made me do it—by the last day, I was starting to develop nerve pain from so much sitting, propped up in the hospital bed. Walking was torture, but so was sitting.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#326

Post by gok »

Fascinating to hear so much anti-drug commenting here. Sounds a lot like the comments for stories praising DEA raids of medicinal marijuana facilities (“Americans just use too many drugs! Doctors prescribing drugs just to ease the pain of patients are enabling a gateway to addiction”)

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#327

Post by pkaye »

snotrockets wrote: post #289
sannee wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lethal dosage is equivalent to about 20 pills. It's really hard to accidentally eat 20 pills, especially when the usual does is about 4 per day...

Recommended dosage, which most people take more of – take two every couple of hours, and you're going to need a new liver. And when you're in pain, it's easy to loose count. Which is why in some countries, the maximum amount allowed over the counter is 16ct or so (sometimes a bit more when bought from a pharmacist who can make sure the buyer is aware of the dangers). It is irresponsible to sell a 1,000 ct bottle of p…

What if they buy the 16ct packs over multiple days and overdose on them?

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#328

Post by woodpanel »

Derbasti wrote: post #324
woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

This is not true. Doctors do not and must not prescribe Homeopathic stuff in Germany. If it is payed for by the government/healthcare, it has to be proven effective.

It is. There are many doctors openly advertising being open to alternative medicine. Nowhere did I say „they must“. They can though, and often will since patients who believe in Homeopathy will often choose another doctor if theirs isn‘t „into“ it.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#329

Post by woodpanel »

andrewksl wrote: post #315
woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

Whoa, seriously? Actual medical doctors will prescribe government-paid homeopathy?

Yes, they will. But to clarify: it’s not mandated or anything. It’s rather „good business practice“ aided by being covered by healthcare.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#330

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

andrewksl wrote: post #315
woodpanel wrote: post #232

Two words: German Romanticism. Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists. Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeo…

Whoa, seriously? Actual medical doctors will prescribe government-paid homeopathy?

Yes. Especially if the patient has the above-mentioned "need to take something" because just waiting it out is not a sufficiently palatable option (even if it is the only one).

But IIRC you got to pay it yourself in many cases.

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