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Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#171

Post by contravariant »

reader5000 wrote: post #164
unicornporn wrote: post #155

Ingvar was a fascist sympathizer with corporatist ideas. He stayed true to his nazi sympathies long after the atrocities of Nazi Germany became known to the world. He was once a very active member of Svensk Socialistisk Samling[1][3]. As late as 2010 he hailed the Swedish fascist leader Per Engdahl[1][2]. He may have been an excellent business man (and tax evader), but please remembers these facts too. [1] https://ww…

The man was a hero.

You're going to have to clarify that one a bit. Currently it looks like you're calling him a hero for being fascist.

Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#173

Post by abritinthebay »

vadimberman wrote: post #170
slac wrote: post #132

Mixed feelings here. Incredible entrepreneur that built an empire on solid product values. Masterfully executed through laser focus on logistics. Brought design and furniture to the masses. Shadowed by his Nazi roots which I never felt he apologized forcefully enough... And the fact the incredibly shadowy ikea tax structure makes it hard for anyone to compete against. Profiles itself as a Swedish company and uses the…

> Also, the mountain of cash hidden in all the Dutch and Luxembourg trust funds coming from this tax structure is not being used to contribute back to society in a meaningful way like Gates and Buffett. Not really an excuse, but at least since 1990s, that was very common among the European rich. Psychologically, it's easy to justify: the state takes about half of your hard-earned cash, then passes it on to a bunch of…

Yes, I’m psychology there’s a term for that: selfish.

Could also go with “social parasite” if we’re going more with political theory.

Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#174

Post by drawkbox »

kalleboo wrote: post #100
drawkbox wrote: post #91

What a great entrepreneur and product guy. Kamprad should be very proud of what he built. Not many business owners today start from the aspect of frugality like he did. IKEA is a place that targets everyone but is priced at middle class or lower levels unlike most products today. That goes back to his roots. Mr Kamprad was renowned for his devotion to frugality, reportedly driving an old Volvo and travelling by econo…

Some of the "frugality" stuff is just image - he also had a Porsche, lived in a very nice property in Switzerland for 40 years, and also owned a French vineyard (although he forced IKEA to sell the wine from the latter so he may have actually made money off of that one...)

Ingvar Kamprad got mega rich, as accountants do for the rich they have much of it offshore and hidden because they get a piece, but he is probably in the top 10 most wealthy, 50 billion or so [1].

What didn't change is the company focus, very middle class like Costco.

What didn't change is how the company was started, from frugality and internal innovation.

What didn't change is treating employees well as part of your business that directly affects consumers.

So yeah, he got mega wealthy and deserved it and earned those toys. But the company and mission never changed meanwhile many companies in that space folded or moved to focus on upper middle class or wealthy only. IKEA still has a Costo/Sears type of target market that is largely not pursued today. IKEA workers also love it like they do at Costco, WinCo and you can compare that to how Walmart treats retail workers (they treat devs well) in pay and how people feel in the organization. I prefer to spend money at places that treat employees well and pay well.

[1] http://www.businessinsider.com/how-ikea-founder-ingvar-kampr...

Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#175

Post by jchb »

robert_foss wrote: post #154
zkomp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax evasion... did that not happen only after the swedish arrogant Socialists wanted to impose one extra tax that would only hit IKEA? I really think my country has been crazy a long time with the highest taxation in the world... Honestly, we need more companies leaving...

Sorry, which tax was proposed that specifically targetted only IKEA?

It was not a specific tax that targeted IKEA. But there was a set of taxes and regulations that one could say targeted all major "owners of capital".

Until 1989, the corporate tax was 52%. Yes there were various deductions, but still, 52%. Then a wealth tax of 2.5% on assets (all asset classes) over 1.6 million kronor - about $1.5 million in todays monetary value. This wealth tax could also be collected from a corporation when its liquid holdings exceeded double than that that of its debt.

Add to that, a intense political debate about introducing the so called Employee Funds - a mechanism in where a large part of the collected corporate tax would be dedicated to buying shares in the taxed corporation, shares that would then be distributed among the employees with a goal of collective ownership.

Perhaps indicative of the business climate in 1970s Sweden, Astrid Lindgren, the author of Pippi Longstocking, famously wrote a short satirical story about her over 100% margin tax rate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomperipossa_in_Monismania.

Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#176

Post by alphonsegaston »

jchb wrote: post #175
robert_foss wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, which tax was proposed that specifically targetted only IKEA?

It was not a specific tax that targeted IKEA. But there was a set of taxes and regulations that one could say targeted all major "owners of capital". Until 1989, the corporate tax was 52%. Yes there were various deductions, but still, 52%. Then a wealth tax of 2.5% on assets (all asset classes) over 1.6 million kronor - about $1.5 million in todays monetary value. This wealth tax could also be collected from a corpor…

And yet Lindgren remained a committed Social Democrat even in spite of this. Drawing a parallel between her and a tax-dodging, fascist sympathizer is quite the leap. Lindgren despised the Nazism Kamprad embraced and never really fully repudiated.

Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#177

Post by tjr225 »

jchb wrote: post #175
robert_foss wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, which tax was proposed that specifically targetted only IKEA?

It was not a specific tax that targeted IKEA. But there was a set of taxes and regulations that one could say targeted all major "owners of capital". Until 1989, the corporate tax was 52%. Yes there were various deductions, but still, 52%. Then a wealth tax of 2.5% on assets (all asset classes) over 1.6 million kronor - about $1.5 million in todays monetary value. This wealth tax could also be collected from a corpor…

"Add to that, a intense political debate about introducing the so called Employee Funds - a mechanism in where a large part of the collected corporate tax would be dedicated to buying shares in the taxed corporation, shares that would then be distributed among the employees with a goal of collective ownership."

That is a really interesting idea.

Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#178

Post by jchb »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #176
jchb wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was not a specific tax that targeted IKEA. But there was a set of taxes and regulations that one could say targeted all major "owners of capital". Until 1989, the corporate tax was 52%. Yes there were various deductions, but still, 52%. Then a wealth tax of 2.5% on assets (all asset classes) over 1.6 million kronor - about $1.5 million in todays monetary value. This wealth tax could also be collected from a corpor…

And yet Lindgren remained a committed Social Democrat even in spite of this. Drawing a parallel between her and a tax-dodging, fascist sympathizer is quite the leap. Lindgren despised the Nazism Kamprad embraced and never really fully repudiated.

Not sure where I drew that parallel. I think we aren't discussing the facist angle in this sub-thread. What you are saying regarding Lindgren is correct, but the point is that the Social Democrats went to far, as they drew heavy criticism from even a loyal supporter. But then the party partially reversed direction in the 1990s.

Note that Ingvar Kamprad wasn't the only one to leave Sweden for tax related reasons in the 70-80s era. To name a few others: Hans Rausing (TetraPak), Stefan Persson (H&M), Ingmar Bergman, Björn Borg..

Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#179

Post by unicornporn »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #168
orsenthil wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some context also helps. ``` The tycoon revealed some elements of his past in a book in 1988, admitting that he was a close friend of the Swedish fascist activist Per Engdahl, and a member of his New Swedish Movement between 1942 and 1945. He said that his involvement was youthful "stupidity" and the "greatest mistake" of his life. ```

The parent already pointed out that in a 2010 interview he expressed his unchanged admiration for Endghal. And he was also later show to have remained friends with him well into the 50s, exchanging correspondence and kind regards, a further misrepresentation of the length and character of their friendship. The 1988 “apology” was obviously just PR.

Correct.

Re: Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad has died

#180

Post by alphonsegaston »

jchb wrote: post #178
alphonsegaston wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Lindgren remained a committed Social Democrat even in spite of this. Drawing a parallel between her and a tax-dodging, fascist sympathizer is quite the leap. Lindgren despised the Nazism Kamprad embraced and never really fully repudiated.

Not sure where I drew that parallel. I think we aren't discussing the facist angle in this sub-thread. What you are saying regarding Lindgren is correct, but the point is that the Social Democrats went to far, as they drew heavy criticism from even a loyal supporter. But then the party partially reversed direction in the 1990s. Note that Ingvar Kamprad wasn't the only one to leave Sweden for tax related reasons in th…

You used Lindgren and her story as an example of the "business climate" of Sweden in the 70s and as an implied defense of Kamprad/IKEA's actions. But her critique, when coupled with her continued commitment to socialism, isn't comparable to Kamprad/IKEA's actions.

Essentially, there's an important and material difference between saying, "I'm a socialist, but these taxes, which I'll continue to pay, are excessive" and "I'm an unreprentant fascist who must hide my wealth from these undeserving thieves," even if the latter can opportunistically profit from the former's sentiment to justify their own actions.

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