It's very interesting to me to see the attack on the article/research and the defense of the screen here. Reminds me very much of client change deniers.
With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
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Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#232They did a study using Facebook. But I'm more curious about Instagram. "Look at all these rich beautiful people with millions of followers sailing around the world on their yachts." Ten minutes on Instagram is enough to fill any sane person with existential dread and bring about severe depression.
Not as much as LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a fairytale-land for adults, and it's bizzare (to me) that anyone wants to participate. It's not even humblebragging anymore. It's "Look what I made, and what I achieved" packed into casual "Oh this thing? Yeah it's just my perfect life"-packages...
The worst thing about LinkedIn is the guys who think it is a dating site. I have completely stopped replying to "recruiters" who contact me on LinkedIn. I still keep it updated though.
Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#233Obviously just a sample size of 1, but I -- a teenager -- am the only one out of all my friends that isn't depressed, and I'm fairly sure I spend more time on the computer/phone than all of them. Not to imply that the conclusion is wrong, I could just be an outlier, but it's likely just a rule of thumb when attempting to diagnose/identify potential causes of a problem.
Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
For my son (17 y.o.) it is online games and phone use in general. He has - I hope - mild depression, which - I believe - is caused by his online habits. His mom and I thought taking his PC away from him would fix it. But then he falls into school-sleep cycle, that looks like full-blown depression. Yes, his grades are affected and in not a good way. What works for now is to participate in his life with him. As of now…
When I was around that age I also had my PC taken away from me. My recommendation would be to see if you can kickstart some hobby by spending a few hundred dollars on something as a substitute for the PC. Something of his choice than is more constructive than video games. When my PC was taken away and not replaced with anything, I just got bored and didn't know what to do with my time.
I've been thinking that possibly that is part of the problem. Kids don't experience being bored anymore, and working out ways to deal with a lack of constant entertainment/stimulation.
When I was a teenager I was frequently bored. Nothing on TV (we only had a few channels), no mobile phones, SMS, or online social media. You could call a friend on the telephone, maybe, if they were home and their phone wasn't busy. Once you were old enough to drive, and assuming you had access to a car, your options opened up a bit but meeting friends still took some planning.
I have teens now, and I can literally not remember the last time I heard the "I'm bored" whinging that my parents heard so often. They are never bored. They always have their phones, with games and connections to friends. I don't know if that's good or bad.
Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not as much as LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a fairytale-land for adults, and it's bizzare (to me) that anyone wants to participate. It's not even humblebragging anymore. It's "Look what I made, and what I achieved" packed into casual "Oh this thing? Yeah it's just my perfect life"-packages...
Why would anyone browse LinkedIn? This is actually a serious question. I'm pretty good about keeping mine updated, but the only viewers I'm planning on are recruiters, who would be getting the same information regardless.
I don't know exactly why I do that. But every few weeks I login and browse through 100s of profiles starting with people I know, to suggestions I may know and then acquaintances of acquaintance and so on. I guess it is a mix of gossip and research for my personal consumption.
Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You have to curate your feed. Curate curate curate. So the counter-argument is that Instagram is not so depressing provided that one uses as little Instagram as possible ("curate, curate, curate")? That kind of proves the parent's point (which wasn't that one can't possible ever find anything non-depressing/jealousy inducing on Instagram).
> one uses as little Instagram as possible No, you didn't understand. The point is that you should follow things that make you feel good and cut off access to things that make you feel bad. Choose your experience. Curate your feed. That's supposed to be the whole point. It's like the difference between enjoying a glass of fine wine and alcoholic abuse that causes cirrhosis.
This is more complicated than you suggest. One toxic element of social media is that it's difficult to really notice these subtle effects. It's only in aggregate that the "bad" is really recognizable. E.g., on a surface level, it may feel enjoyable to view happy people living the good life, while subtle jealousy and a sense of inferiority may develop over longer lengths of time.
Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the realities of student loans, an out of reach housing market, devalued college degrees, the gig economy, promises of no retirement, etc. Have you ever met a teenager? Almost literally zero percent of them think (or need to think) about this stuff, with the possible exception of some of the very oldest teenagers (ie, people in their first or second year of college who are starting to think about the details of the…
Yeah, I feel like there's some projection going on with GP and those issues. Teenagers don't stress about mortgages or retirement.
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Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#238Before I even started reading, I knew it was going to be an attack at the phone. A few centuries ago, they'd attack books. Look back at videos from the 1950s and people didn't talk to each other on the train back then either, their noses were in books, magazines and newspapers. By the 80s, the nerdy kids had headphones and cassette players. By the 90s, people had discmans. The trouble with articles like this is they…
I like the point of looking at Europe, that's a good idea. Anyone have any stats for Europe?
Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#239The existential challenge for most teens is "Do I belong with peers?" I had a hard enough time with that, with only a few hundred schoolmates. I can't quite imagine how tough that must be on social media today. Bullying and mobbing are just so much more efficient. I suppose that one could argue that's it's just stronger selective pressure for toughness. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt…
> Bullying and mobbing are just so much more efficient.
That's a deeply insightful observation that should be centerpiece in this conversation. As others have pointed out it's clearly not "screen time", and if the effect is real, it's related to social media, not screens. My happiest days were spending 10+ hours on my Sinclair Spectrum clone, the screen certainly made me feel more capable and confident in my abilities than school work or social interaction.
Yet, my social interactions were moderated by the constraints of real life, that strongly dampen agresive tendencies. I can imagine in terror what it means to be a withdrawn teenager now: technology permits cutthroat exclusion of the undesirables while ridicule is instantaneous and viral.
Re: With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there’s a likely culprit
#240Before I even started reading, I knew it was going to be an attack at the phone. A few centuries ago, they'd attack books. Look back at videos from the 1950s and people didn't talk to each other on the train back then either, their noses were in books, magazines and newspapers. By the 80s, the nerdy kids had headphones and cassette players. By the 90s, people had discmans. The trouble with articles like this is they…
“And nihilism isn't a bad thing.“
Becoming unwilling to manifest any faith in anything at all is absolutely a bad thing.