231–240 of 421 posts
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Anecdotally, it's fairly prevalent in Europe as well. Living in Europe, I know just as many Europeans who pop ibuprofen like candy compared to Americans.
Can you buy Ibuprofen in stores or do you need a prescription? In the US most stores have a big aisle with painkillers.
Although the article‘s premise seems reasonable (given the author‘s origin, the USA, being renown as prone to prescribe pain killers and psychotropics for the most menial things[1]) - a similar bias must be outlined when trying to understand the German perspective: That we are still romanticists.
Many German doctors will send you off with „some rest“ and „tea“. Some will prescribe homeopathics, which are to some extend even covered by our universal healthcare, which makes „sense“ since a large part of the electorate believes in it. Even in IT you will regularly hear: „i feel like I’m getting a cold - better take my homeopathics quick or it will definitely evolve into one!“
Alternative healthcare is a big market here, many individuals spending 100s - 1000s € a year for the most obscure things. Which doesn’t sound much per se, but for Romanticism Germans who regularity castigate Pharma- and Medical industries as capitalistic, to throw money so willingly away kind of beats the purpose of coming across as mindful.
Anyone remembers the the Mitchell and Webb sketch about the „homeopathic ER“? Well fun fact: the Nazis did try to make this happen. In order to get rid off the evil, jewish (science based) medicine. They wanted to make homeopathy the official medicine of the Reich - including the Wehrmacht, which for better or worse, the Generals intervened against.
[1] I have no proofs for this being actually true, just the representation that the US medical system gets by German media - and many Americans
Related: some studies have found that opioids are no better than ibuprofen+acetaminophen: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/as-epidemic-rages-er... And I believe it. My wife had somewhat involved oral surgery (1 regular extraction plus removal of 2 impacted molars embedded in her jaw - it was difficult enough that they said a broken jaw during the procedure was a possible complication. The doctor prescribed a w…
Not to put a fine point on it, but you don't know what you're talking about. Have you ever seen someone who is in so much pain that they're projectile vomiting just because of the pain? I have. There is pain, and there is PAIN. If you can get by with some NSAIDS, then you're just in mild pain. This is not likely to interfere with healing. This is the kind of pain the person is talking about in the article. It's scary…
Yet she really only needed zero vicodin. Just like the person in the NYTimes article.
But thanks for your illuminating anecdote of someone who had some procedure and ignored some medical advice and took something else than the something that was prescribed.
Neither view-point in inherently better or worse, just different.
Note that Germany does have two class system now. The public class, and the private class. When you're in the public system you often sit in different waiting rooms for hours while those with private insurance get priority treatment, choice of Dr., better rooms in hospitals, etc. Many Germans now follow a hybrid, basic coverage through public insurance, with private add-ons.
It sounds like the poster had private care.
Most vividly I remember the birth of my son some years ago in the US. We had to practically force the doctors to stop looking at monitors and machines and actually look at the mother. They wanted to control the whole process like a machine, instead of letting nature do its thing, unless and until something goes wrong. Afterwards the bill was $32k (for a no frill, no complications birth) $24k charged to his mother, $8 charged to my son (at age of the few days, his first official mail). The insurance covered it all, still the cost seemed staggering.
However, _would_ something have happened, I felt extremely confident that we would receive the best care and treatment that current technology could deliver.
It's also often different from Dr. to Dr. and region to region. I have not come across a chamomile sipping Dr. in Germany, yet. :)
I do subscribe to reducing "fixing" things with pills. Often that's the instant-gratifying, cheap way out. Health requires thought, time, and "work". And of course I would not try to cure cancer with herbal tea.
> I didn’t mention that I use ibuprofen like candy Never, ever become like this person. Do not make a habit out of taking ibuprofen and assuming it's benign. If you have to take painkillers every day to function then something else is wrong and you need to address that. NSAIDs alter chemical production in your body and over the long term can cause permanent damage.
Can't really tell if this part was sarcasm, especially the children's cough sirup that makes sleepy. Is this a thing!?
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I wonder if that doctor has ever had major surgery himself and been told not to use painkillers? Even if that is the case, pain seems to vary greatly in how it affects people. I would be very hesitant to tell someone that they should just let the pain "guide" them, because I have no idea what it is like for them.
I agree that there is no "one-size-fits-all" medical solution, but perhaps having this base-line allows building up when discussed with one's doctor - the article does not discuss this post-operation re-negotiation of how to manage the pain. Perhaps some HNers have experience with a similar situation that they could share.
I'm perfectly understanding the concern for long term morpohine derivatives for treating post-surgical pain (although there are plenty of studies that show pain delays healing) so there is a bit of picking-n-choosing going on. Many nurses would recommend OTC acetaminophen in combination with ibuprofen as they work quite well and you're definitely still going to "feel it" if you're pulling out stitches with no risk of addiction. Since you aren't using a narcotic, you won't need a stool softener either.
http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2001/march/Pediani/Pain-relie...
I'm a bit concerned by the reliance on ibuprofen for pain (it's great for inflamation but prevents blood coagulation) since it can cause bleeding, although I'd note that she didn't even need that to sleep so her lapro-surgery was either extremely minor or she has high pain tolerance. Normally, combination with acetaminophen is preferred, because the dosage of each can be minimized.
Frankly, this all just sounds like German doctoring. I've also been told that you don't need decongestants (when flying) because your "nose should flow". It's normally acceptable (if inconvenient) advice, but if you're flying it could lead to eat infection and damage. It's not like your ear pain is going to get a pilot to turn a 747 around or help your cold pass faster. Suffering is not the answer to everything any more than a painless existence is.
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Huh? You don't need a prescription to get paracetamol, acetaminophen, and ibuprofen
I mean to say: the medical profession probably needs to be cautious with regard to how it goes about advising people to take paracetamol or ibuprofen. We know they aren't good for you, and I know I've seen at least a few people pop them like candy.
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You mean, $30,000 to $40,000, the median cost in the US, nearly all of which would be covered by insurance. No sense in fabricating magical numbers, like a multi-million dollar bill, everyone knows the flaws in the US system as is. It costs about 1/3 to 1/2 as much in Germany, paid for by other tax payers.
Sorry I was being sarcastic. Also the german healthcare system is not all financed by tax payers. "paid for by the public health care system" would be a better sentence.
However, that table doesn’t include subsidies for the SHI. All in all, 10% is funded with taxes.
http://www.hspm.org/countries/germany28082014/livinghit.aspx...
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Sorry I was being sarcastic. Also the german healthcare system is not all financed by tax payers. "paid for by the public health care system" would be a better sentence.
“Not at all” is too strong [edit: and actually it was “not all” which is correct and even an understatement], but it’s true it’s a small (and declining) contribution: http://www.hspm.org/countries/germany28082014/Lists/LivingHi... However, that table doesn’t include subsidies for the SHI. All in all, 10% is funded with taxes. http://www.hspm.org/countries/germany28082014/livinghit.aspx...
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My dentist in California said he had several patients from Eastern Europe and Russia who had dental treatment like this, and their teeth were all mangled from treatment without anesthesia. He had done numerous re-drilling’s and re-fillings and root canals on these patients to deal with decay in teeth that had already been treated in their home countries. They had decay underneath fillings because the original treatme…
> They had decay underneath fillings because the original treatment had essentially only gone as deep as the patient could stand. In the middle of a root-canal my anesthetic completely wore off. I was able to feel the nerve root in my tooth being twisted up into a metal file and snapped out, along with all the canal filing and packing that happens afterwards. White-hot all-encompassing pain. There's no way any of tho…
