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Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

reuters.com

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Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#301

Post by jv22222 »

0wing wrote: post #283
jv22222 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OmiseGo is building a decentralized exchange that converts between USD and a coin (any coin any currency). http://www.tristone-llc.com/omisego-the-global-standard-for-...

Isn't that just what Kraken or Coinbase already does? Someone needs to be the operator of exchange between fiat and crypto, at which point they and you will be subject to tax and regulation. Anyone who operates an exchange is subject to money transmitter laws and KYC laws. Anytime you convert from cryptocoins to fiat, you're subject to capital gains tax if you're a US citizen. https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014…

> Isn't that just what Kraken or Coinbase already does?

No. It's more akin to an operating system of money rather than a proprietary siloed app.

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#302

Post by mikekchar »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #292
mikekchar wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of companies do exactly this. For example, in Japan, where I live, the train and bus companies will give you a card. You can "put money" on the card and then spend it on travel. You can also use the cards to buy things in the convenience stores, some restaurants, vending machines, etc, etc. You can think of this as a "coin" that's pegged against prevailing currency (in my case, the yen). It's not a "cryptocoin"…

I predict nothing useful will emerge. The blockchain is an interesting Computer Science toy. But in the 10+ years since it was invented, the only real application that anyone has found for it is Massively Distributed Ponzi Schemes. The problems that you point out with London Transport aren't solvable by a distributed blockchain, because London Transport is a single central authority. It's completely pointless creatin…

I think you're blinding yourself with the hype. The "blockchain" is nothing more than a merkle tree. We've known about these for a long time. The insight is that by publishing a merkle tree we can show that various actors are following a protocol. This is very valuable. For an example of another application take a look at certificate transparency (not actually a fan of CAs, but it was the most readily available example).

It's interesting that you say that creating a payment processor for transportation fares that is not controlled by a monopoly is pointless. I currently live in a country that has at least 5 payment processors for train fares and it's taken them decades to figure out how to interoperate Even now I still can't use my rail card in Tokyo.

These are real problems. "Computer Science toys" seems like another word for "research" to me. That the research was done by some random guy on the internet with unknown motivations is completely beside the point. Yes, like most people, I could definitely do without the scams. I could definitely do without the "OMG! Blockchain" knee jerk reaction. But would it be too impolite to also complain about the "Blockchain? Pfft!" knee jerk reaction? Lightning is a great example of a useful protocol -- full stop. I don't care if it's implemented on top of Bitcoin or on top of some byzantine 18th century payment exchange based on carrier pigeons. We need more of this stuff, not less.

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#303

Post by marcus_holmes »

mikekchar wrote: post #302
marcus_holmes wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I predict nothing useful will emerge. The blockchain is an interesting Computer Science toy. But in the 10+ years since it was invented, the only real application that anyone has found for it is Massively Distributed Ponzi Schemes. The problems that you point out with London Transport aren't solvable by a distributed blockchain, because London Transport is a single central authority. It's completely pointless creatin…

I think you're blinding yourself with the hype. The "blockchain" is nothing more than a merkle tree. We've known about these for a long time. The insight is that by publishing a merkle tree we can show that various actors are following a protocol. This is very valuable. For an example of another application take a look at certificate transparency (not actually a fan of CAs, but it was the most readily available examp…

My point about the transport fares was really badly put. Sorry. I meant that the whole system has an inherent single point of failure and single central authority: the train system. A train ticket for a train that doesn't run is useless ;) Using a distributed, authority-less system to provide the tickets doesn't change that.

I totally agree about pure research giving us CS "toys" that eventually turn out to be useful. But we've had ten years to find some use for blockchain that isn't cryptocurrency, and as far as I'm aware, no-one's found one. My suspicion is that this is because the problems that the blockchain solve only rarely need solving. It's unlucky that one of those rare occurrences is currency, hence all the bullshit.

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#304

Post by kalleboo »

tomc1985 wrote: post #67
gesman wrote: post #3

Conclusion: If you keep any cryptocurrency on an exchange or online service that can or is capable of controlling your private keys - MOVE all your cryptos to your own deterministic wallet YESTERDAY!

I would have had Bitcoin at a much more opportune time if I could have gotten Armory to work. The idea that one must download the entire blockchain makes maintaining a wallet very difficult for some, esp. if the wallet software doesn't accept the data at the end of the dozens+GB download.

I've messed around with Bitcoin and I can't get past the fact that the top 2 most recommended wallets for macOS aren't signed by Apple and you have to verify a PGP signature manually (and the author's key is signed by a bunch of people I've never heard of so even that is a leap of faith). So I refuse to deal with amounts bigger than I assume will definitely get stolen.

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#305

Post by 0wing »

jv22222 wrote: post #301
0wing wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that just what Kraken or Coinbase already does? Someone needs to be the operator of exchange between fiat and crypto, at which point they and you will be subject to tax and regulation. Anyone who operates an exchange is subject to money transmitter laws and KYC laws. Anytime you convert from cryptocoins to fiat, you're subject to capital gains tax if you're a US citizen. https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014…

> Isn't that just what Kraken or Coinbase already does? No. It's more akin to an operating system of money rather than a proprietary siloed app.

Except you can't get usable fiat out?

There needs to be an endpoint distributor of physical cash, SWIFT, or wire transfers of real fiat and those end points are subject to regulation just like localbitcoins or ATM machines are subject to regulation.

Can you explain how a decenteralized exchange provides USD?

abstracted IOU "stable-tokens" like Tether are NOT USD, see the case of Liberty Reserve [1] or [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Reserve

[2] https://hackernoon.com/the-curious-tale-of-tethers-6b0031eea...

https://medium.com/@bitfinexed/are-fraudulent-tethers-being-...

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#306

Post by jv22222 »

0wing wrote: post #305
jv22222 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't that just what Kraken or Coinbase already does? No. It's more akin to an operating system of money rather than a proprietary siloed app.

Except you can't get usable fiat out? There needs to be an endpoint distributor of physical cash, SWIFT, or wire transfers of real fiat and those end points are subject to regulation just like localbitcoins or ATM machines are subject to regulation. Can you explain how a decenteralized exchange provides USD? abstracted IOU "stable-tokens" like Tether are NOT USD , see the case of Liberty Reserve [1] or [2] [1] https:…

> Can you explain how a decenteralized exchange provides USD?

A major part of the OmiseGo plan is full cash-in/cash-out capabilities via as many ATMs as they can get connected to.

They have access to quite a few thousand ATMs out the gate via strategic investments and partnerships with a number of very large banks in Aisia.

Their parent company is Omise (basically the Asian Stripe) already has a cashflow of $100-$500m/day. FYI They will be switching all their existing business to run on the new dex, so from the get go it will start with a large volume as the test case.

Checkout the OmiseGo white-paper for the main details.

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#307

Post by baby »

larkeith wrote: post #101
ReverseCold wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be exchange incompetence, their only wallet as a hot wallet. Disclaimer: I hold some XEM, have contributed to source, etc.

IIRC the only thing remotely close to breaking a crypto we've seen is the DAO hack; otherwise, it's generally incompetency somewhere along the chain, so that's not at all surprising to hear. Rather astonishing in magnitude (a single hot wallet ?), but such is tech.

crypto has been broken a lot over the past, look at MD5, RC4, DES, SHA1, ...

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#308

Post by cal5k »

fooker wrote: post #197
cal5k wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A government? It's a list. Until it collects taxes, has a monopoly on violence and provides basic services, a list is just... a list.

I just had a LISPy epiphany here! All that you mention are ultimately lists.

An elisphany! What is the human body if not a list of proteins? ;-)

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#309

Post by fooker »

cal5k wrote: post #308
fooker wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just had a LISPy epiphany here! All that you mention are ultimately lists.

An elisphany! What is the human body if not a list of proteins? ;-)

What is the universe but a list of 'string's?

Re: Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M: NHK

#310

Post by jnbiche »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #237
jnbiche wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how would this work if the actor decided to send the vast majority coins to many random, arbitrary accounts? (e.g. arbitrarily sending coins to everyone who has Then they'd have to take those coins off the blacklist, or else prepare to deal with an increasingly intractable tracking problem. Ethically, that would be the less bad option, since the thief would be deprived off the income, even if it's not returned to t…

What if a portion of those sent coins are sent to attacker-owned wallets?

If it's a non-negligible amount compared to other wallets, that would be pretty easy to track down. I mean, you'd look at new wallets compared to existing wallets.
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