Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 421 posts

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#121

Post by ams6110 »

lispm wrote: post #106
adventured wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean, $30,000 to $40,000, the median cost in the US, nearly all of which would be covered by insurance. No sense in fabricating magical numbers, like a multi-million dollar bill, everyone knows the flaws in the US system as is. It costs about 1/3 to 1/2 as much in Germany, paid for by other tax payers.

It's paid by people/companies who pay into the German universal health insurance system, not by the tax payer.

You are splitting hairs. "people/companies who pay into the German universal health insurance system" are effectively being taxed, whatever the wording is.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#122

Post by imtringued »

bambax wrote: post #94

> Stool softeners Never heard of those. What are they exactly? Orange juice? I had a minor operation last year, also via laparoscopy. Didn't take any painkillers afterwards, and all was fine. I think pain has a lot to do with fear: if we don't expect it and we don't know why it's there, it's horrible, but if we know where it comes from and how it's supposed to evolve it's a lot more bearable (within limits of course)…

>Never heard of those. What are they exactly?

Anecdote: Dried plums work pretty well for me.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#123

Post by ams6110 »

pkilgore wrote: post #98
syshum wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why I also oppose single payer, but that is a whole other topic. The fact that Single Payer is used to make those justifications is one of my primary reasons to oppose it

Hows that? It's my understanding that in a single payer system you are still allowed to pay for whatever you want or buy supplemental insurance to cover types of care the baseline single payer system will not.

I don't think this is the popular understanding of "single payer" by its advocates in the USA. They think it means "I get any medical care I want, any time, with no waiting, for free."

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#124

Post by germanier »

tpush wrote: post #102
fastball wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're paying for it, I agree with you. But that's not the case in Germany, as they have a single payer healthcare system. That "easy solution" costs other people money.

Slight correction: Germany does not have single-payer healthcare.

But the public health insurance system (which covers 90% of the population) makes joint decisions (through broad guidelines) on what is covered. An economic assessment is always part of the decision. Representatives of doctors are heavily involved in the process as well. Gemeinsamer Bundesausschuss is the name of that body.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#125

Post by rascul »

wallflower wrote: post #42
maxxxxx wrote: post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

> I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex. I have a friend who was in an accident and required emergency surgery. She happens to be a drug addict who is no longer involved in drugs (we do not say 'former' drug addict as there is no such thing). Even though she put in her intake form "DRUG ADDICT" in bold letters and told them, they s…

Could you elaborate on how there's no such thing as a former addict? I'm curious, as there are a couple substances I used to be addicted to but am not any longer.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#126

Post by _agcx »

maxxxxx wrote: post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

I have noticed how the vast majority of my American friends do not express any reactive need to unnecessarily take pharmaceuticals (especially painkillers, in the case of pain) when they have a medical problem. Does my single anecdotal datapoint negate your single anecdotal datapoint?

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#127

Post by Hackwar »

adventured wrote: post #56
zython wrote: post #21

> "After my surgery, I had to pay 25€ for the taxi ride home" I'll take that over the multi-million US-american hospital bill, any time.

You mean, $30,000 to $40,000, the median cost in the US, nearly all of which would be covered by insurance. No sense in fabricating magical numbers, like a multi-million dollar bill, everyone knows the flaws in the US system as is. It costs about 1/3 to 1/2 as much in Germany, paid for by other tax payers.

I don't really know what you are trying to say. If you are saying that health care in Germany in total cost is cheaper than in the US, then you are right. If you are insinuating that the system is infused with tax money, then you are wrong. It is completely financed by the premiums of the insured people. Not saying that the german system is without issue, but compared with the USA, it is lightyears ahead.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#128

Post by ido »

jdavis703 wrote: post #93
teuobk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Story time! Last Monday evening, I had an accident with an angle grinder in my garage. The cutoff disc went through my leather glove and bit deep into the middle finger of my left hand. After deciding against gluing the cut back together, I drove myself to urgent care and received five stitches. Did I need any painkillers, the doctor asked? I declined; my finger was pumped full of lidocaine at the time. In th…

Well it's a bit tough to do actual work when there's pain that keeps distracting you. In the article the author talks about just needing to rest... But many of us don't really have the luxury of taking multiple days to rest. At least when you're on painkillers you can still do white collar work, albeit at reduced capacity. Without painkillers though, all your mental capacity would be going towards managing the pain.

This may be another geographic difference - In Germany, unless you are self-employed, if you get a dr's note saying you should rest employers aren't allowed to ask you to come to work. And the amount of sick-leave is unlimited.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#129

Post by stevebmark »

> I didn’t mention that I use ibuprofen like candy

Never, ever become like this person. Do not make a habit out of taking ibuprofen and assuming it's benign. If you have to take painkillers every day to function then something else is wrong and you need to address that. NSAIDs alter chemical production in your body and over the long term can cause permanent damage.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#130

Post by christophilus »

maxxxxx wrote: post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

Interesting. I wonder if we have stats on painkiller usage per country? I found this ranking of countries by Opiate usage[0] which places the US at 27 (below Ireland, Switzerland, Italy, and the UK.

Maybe I only hang out with granola Americans, but the only people I know who think the way you describe-- looking for pills to solve minor problems-- are relatives of medical personnel.

I can't think of the last time I personally took a pain killer. I didn't even take one after a major surgery I had a couple of years ago.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_prevalenc...

Post reply on HN