After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea • Hacker News Board

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#101

Post by ddebernardy » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

Heroin was initially marketed as a non-addictive version of morphine. It was challenged by experts on the spot. But Bayer promoted it in ads as a remedy against cough and cold for children regardless. [1] In some sense they weren't first to come up with the idea - TIL ancient Egyptians used opium to stop children crying. [2]

Anyway, IMO the real wtf is drug companies being allowed to advertise prescription drugs in the US. A few lines into the article I eventually assumed Vicodin was an opioid-based painkiller; whereas I'd gather many a NYT reader would be familiar with the name. I find it unfortunate that the author doesn't connect the dots and spell out the conditioning of consumers through pharmaceutical ads.

[1]: http://www.cbgnetwork.org/4148.html [2]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/opioids-the-...

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#102

Post by tpush » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #50

syshum wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why my individualism, and Self Ownership come it to play as I feel that should be my choice if I want to take the risk, it should be up to me if the pain is server enough to warrant opioids or not as I am the one experiencing the pain. Every person reacts differently to procedures and to pain, some people having their wisdom teeth removed may not be painful, others it might be terrible pain. It should be up t…

If you're paying for it, I agree with you. But that's not the case in Germany, as they have a single payer healthcare system. That "easy solution" costs other people money.

Slight correction: Germany does not have single-payer healthcare.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#103

Post by indubitable » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #29

zython wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This make me think: Could this behaviour be influenced by US-american pharma corporations being allowed to run (TV-)ads on prescription medications ?

I think it has more to do with how readily available medication is in the US (Supermarket).

By the standards of many places in the world, medicine in the US is quite prudently distributed.

For instance I can buy antibiotics, or things like prozac at most any pharmacy. Pharmacies being a bit different than in the US. In many places prescriptions are not filled at pharmacies, but at the hospital itself. Pharmacies are often stores that sell only drugs, usually without prescription, as opposed to the US thing where you have a general goods store with a pharmacist filling prescriptions in the back.

And all the regular stuff acetaminophen/ibuprofen/etc are also of course available, though there is a difference that generally it is sold in blister packs rather than in the huge bottles of it you can buy in America.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#104

Post by totallynotcool » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:07 PM UTC

rscho wrote: post #46

criddell wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't they worried about the patient vomiting and choking? I had a dental implant done at the end of last year and I wasn't supposed to eat anything before surgery.

Clear liquids such as sugared water can be safely ingested until 2 hours before surgery.

Maltodextrin

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#105

Post by ams6110 » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #53

I'm going to be very honest, the author comes across as entitled and someone that buys every medicine ad that comes out of tv Take what's prescribed and if there's an issue do complain (or a previously known issue, not "I think just Ibuprofen won't work")

I think that was deliberate. The author was trying to illustrate her preconceptions about medication and pain and eventually discovering a different point of view.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#106

Post by lispm » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #56

zython wrote: post #21

> "After my surgery, I had to pay 25€ for the taxi ride home" I'll take that over the multi-million US-american hospital bill, any time.

You mean, $30,000 to $40,000, the median cost in the US, nearly all of which would be covered by insurance. No sense in fabricating magical numbers, like a multi-million dollar bill, everyone knows the flaws in the US system as is. It costs about 1/3 to 1/2 as much in Germany, paid for by other tax payers.

It's paid by people/companies who pay into the German universal health insurance system, not by the tax payer.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#107

Post by tonfa » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

ggregoire wrote: post #39

chrisper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has more to do with how readily available medication is in the US (Supermarket).

I'm not sure it's a valid point since I can just enter in one of the 3 pharmacies near me and buy a box of aspirins for 2€. We don't have medications in supermarket but we have a LOT of pharmacies here (France).

I think that's the point the parent is making, there's a lot more friction involved, you'd have to get out of your way to get large amount of drugs (amount in one box in the US is just way more than what you'd get in e.g. France).

E.g. the box of aspirin from the supermarket may have 500 pills: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-Pain-Relief-Aspirin-Coated...

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#108

Post by HarryHirsch » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

nosickdays wrote: post #97

HarryHirsch wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people experiencing legitimate pain are becoming casualties of our crackdown on "inappropriate" prescribing. Perhaps in America they are so easy with the opiates because people have a real or perceived need to get back to work. When I had to have two impacted wisdom teeth removed the pain and swelling was completely under control with ice bags, aspirin and two days off work. A low wage at-will worker in the US can't…

This is a rather salient point. In the Netherlands, if I needed (in consultation with my doctor, of course) to stay out of work for a year to recuperate from illness or injury, I can do that and continue to receive my full salary. The second year would be at 70% salary. My job would await my return - only after 2 years would I be separated from my employer and have access to other long-term disability benefits. In th…

If you can't afford to take unpaid time off work, you're using vacation days unless you're in one of a handful of localities that require employers offer a few paid sick days per year.

Yes, on occasion they do send mass email here asking to donate vacation time to XY, who is recuperating from surgery. It makes one reach for the bucket to throw up in every time.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#109

Post by jimjimjim » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

Something that seems more important than the pills is rest. A lot of countries have, by law, a certain number of sick days, annual leave days, and a attitude that if you arn't functioning well then don't be at work or you'll make mistakes and cause more work.

why does the US have a 'play though the pain'/'your letting the team down' attitude towards people taking care of themselves?

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#110

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 28, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #8

I always get in a arguments with my EU acquaintances over pain management topics. The idea that is a "good" to suffer with pain instead of taking pain killers is abhorrent to me.

[deleted]