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After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

nytimes.com

41–50 of 421 posts

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#41
post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

I assure you there are just as many of us with a complete aversion to taking anything at all.

Indeed. Story time!

Last Monday evening, I had an accident with an angle grinder in my garage. The cutoff disc went through my leather glove and bit deep into the middle finger of my left hand. After deciding against gluing the cut back together, I drove myself to urgent care and received five stitches.

Did I need any painkillers, the doctor asked? I declined; my finger was pumped full of lidocaine at the time.

In the middle of the night, the lidocaine wore off, and while the finger hadn't hurt in the immediate aftermath of the injury, it certainly hurt then. After tossing and turning for about an hour, I decided to get up and try to find something to take.

The only analgesic I had in the house was an expired tiny bottle of ibuprofen. I needed about five minutes of digging before I found even that.

I simply don't use painkillers very often. I might take ibuprofen once or twice a year. I can't remember the last time I took anything other than ibuprofen, not even acetaminophen, not even when I twisted my knee.

I'm not sure if I have a higher tolerance of pain than other people or if other people like to self-medicate when the least bit of pain rears its head. Or, perhaps, I've simply been lucky enough not to have much pain.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#42
post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

> I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

I have a friend who was in an accident and required emergency surgery. She happens to be a drug addict who is no longer involved in drugs (we do not say 'former' drug addict as there is no such thing). Even though she put in her intake form "DRUG ADDICT" in bold letters and told them, they still insisted on trying to give opiate-based pain killers to her. It is almost like they are telemarketers going off a script to sell something, which is in this case to push opiate drug painkillers.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#43
post #7

I had jaw surgery recently... while I wouldn't describe it as incredibly "painful", particularly since everything was numb (they have to slice through nerves for this procedure), it was really uncomfortable and stressful for a couple of days afterwards. I wasn't at all ashamed to take percocet after the surgery. Could I have lived without them? Sure. Did they turn me into an instant addict? Of course not. This story…

people experiencing legitimate pain are becoming casualties of our crackdown on "inappropriate" prescribing.

Perhaps in America they are so easy with the opiates because people have a real or perceived need to get back to work. When I had to have two impacted wisdom teeth removed the pain and swelling was completely under control with ice bags, aspirin and two days off work. A low wage at-will worker in the US can't do that.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#44
post #7

I had jaw surgery recently... while I wouldn't describe it as incredibly "painful", particularly since everything was numb (they have to slice through nerves for this procedure), it was really uncomfortable and stressful for a couple of days afterwards. I wasn't at all ashamed to take percocet after the surgery. Could I have lived without them? Sure. Did they turn me into an instant addict? Of course not. This story…

Yeah, I question the idea that it's beneficial to experience pain - why should I? Especially if it's going to cost me days of my life that I could do something with. Maybe not go out, but at least be able to catch up on some of the more passive content... seems like a needless waste of life.

The experience of pain (and I'm separating this from the dopamine-release thing for people who groove on that sort of thing) is, for my money, a useful training facility for willpower and restraint. Separate from the pain-as-warning-signs noted by 'lukeschlather, few things hurt that much and the fact that you are not the master of even yourself is a valuable reminder.

The experience of being uncomfortable is not a bad one to have, nor a bad one to make peace with. Pain and discomfort are a part of humanity: when they don't exist, we invent ways to have both. And there certainly exists a line where chronic pain makes it humane to blunt it--but most folks don't have that problem at all.

And "content" is what you are left with when the soul is leached out of creativity by people who lack it. It is a soul-suckingly awful construct in the twenty-first century and decent people should reject it. Please don't promulgate its notions.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#45
post #11

"I took two ibuprofens that first day. In hindsight, I didn’t need them, but I felt like I should take something" I have noticed the need to "take something" with a lot of American friends when they have problem. It's almost like a reflex.

Anecdotally, it's fairly prevalent in Europe as well. Living in Europe, I know just as many Europeans who pop ibuprofen like candy compared to Americans.

Can you buy Ibuprofen in stores or do you need a prescription? In the US most stores have a big aisle with painkillers.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#46

There was a study at Mass General Hospital studying if pre-surgery carb loading reduced the need for post-op narcotics. (Not sure what the outcome was.)

Aren't they worried about the patient vomiting and choking? I had a dental implant done at the end of last year and I wasn't supposed to eat anything before surgery.

Clear liquids such as sugared water can be safely ingested until 2 hours before surgery.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#47
post #7

I had jaw surgery recently... while I wouldn't describe it as incredibly "painful", particularly since everything was numb (they have to slice through nerves for this procedure), it was really uncomfortable and stressful for a couple of days afterwards. I wasn't at all ashamed to take percocet after the surgery. Could I have lived without them? Sure. Did they turn me into an instant addict? Of course not. This story…

Yeah, I question the idea that it's beneficial to experience pain - why should I? Especially if it's going to cost me days of my life that I could do something with. Maybe not go out, but at least be able to catch up on some of the more passive content... seems like a needless waste of life.

Pain is really important. You can't properly heal from an injury without pain, because you won't know when you're worsening the injury. In the worst case you'll get into a descending spiral where you need to take more and more painkillers as you attempt to go about your day normally until you've injured yourself to the point where painkillers are no longer able to let you ignore the injury.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#48
post #19
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you completely failed to read between the lines - the article is a criticism of rapidly increasing number of people addicted to pain pills in US and their excessive consumption across the country.

Overall this is a pretty disappointing article, for a verity of reasons, one it does not really express anything it just tells a very boring story with seamingly no point It advocating for less pain management in the US? or better pain management in Germany, I cant tell It is critical of the idea that citizens of the US desire to eliminate pain? I am critical of cultures that endorse and support living with/in pain "…

> It advocating for less pain management in the US? or better pain management in Germany, I cant tell

If you can't tell, you should read it again. This article is exceedingly clear. (And it is good, and it is right.)

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#49
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you even have to read between the lines. The article is pretty clear about it. Not just pain killers but also things like cold medicine. But he did say his English was poor so i can see how that might get lost in translation.

I'm pretty sure the author is a woman... the article says she got a hysterectomy, which is surgery to remove a uterus. (She also mentions her husband in the opening paragraph)

They were talking about the HN parent comment, Quzani.

Re: After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea

#50
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to suffer with pain needlessly, it's another if the treatment of pain could have long term harmful effects, e.g., addition to opioids. I had impacted wisdom teeth and needed dental surgery. The dentist gave me a couple of codeines to take home but I never took them. The day after the local anesthesia wore off was miserable, but it became easily manageable after that. I found a lot of times the fear of…

This is why my individualism, and Self Ownership come it to play as I feel that should be my choice if I want to take the risk, it should be up to me if the pain is server enough to warrant opioids or not as I am the one experiencing the pain. Every person reacts differently to procedures and to pain, some people having their wisdom teeth removed may not be painful, others it might be terrible pain. It should be up t…

If you're paying for it, I agree with you.

But that's not the case in Germany, as they have a single payer healthcare system. That "easy solution" costs other people money.

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