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Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

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Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#61

Want to play with it? conda create -n py1 python=1.0 source activate py1 python Python 1.0.1 (Mar 26 2014) Copyright 1991-1994 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam >>> Sorry Windows, only on macOS and Linux.

Does this not work with Ubuntu on Windows? I've been using it as my primary development environment and it seems to work perfectly with the mainstream Ubuntu/linux software I deal with. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/about

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#62
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it peculiar that people seem to defend a million line code base, like that is something to be proud off. The days I walk out of the office with less code in some mature project's repo are the days I know I accomplished the most.

Sometimes it's not possible to do it in another way. Hacker News' web-focused world doesn't apply to most of the software world where software is deployed on customers hardware for the customer to work with by themselves as much as possible. If I had to deploy 10 microservices with 2 level caches and internal network routing on a whole server rack or in "the cloud", our customers would laugh in our face and choose on…

No, you simply write your app in a language that does not force you to write millions of lines of code, a language like Python, for example. I don't understand what any of this has to do with 'web-based' vs whatever though. Yes most systems I tend to work on these days have browser-based front ends, but that's usually a trivial part of the system.

About deployments:

The fast majority of 'web-focused' apps I work on ships in a single docker container. The customer, another department in the big multinational I currently work for, deploys it on one of their docker hosts where it lives behind a nginx emperor with many - up to 30 other vassals. It happens automatically once a week on the release schedule. OK, these are usually trivial little CRUD things - but not always. Bigger systems tend to get their own VM or et of VM's.

Every other third party vendor product I had to deal with in the last 5 years came in either a set of docker containers, a pre-built VM, or both.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#63
post #60
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe one day, when CPython guys start taking JIT seriously and finally get rid of GIL.

The fact that almost everything in Python is mutable by default pretty much guarantees the GIL is never going away.

That doesn't affect other languages with similar semantics.

Not even alternative Python implementations for that matter.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea thats what mypy is for, and that fits my workflow too: Rapidly prototype once the API has stabilised, I add the typehints. For unfammilliar codebases using MonkeyType is now a option too.

I started using type hints and it greatly improves the readability and sometimes catches a mistake. But would love for it to be more. Maybe a flag to the interpreter that would raise an exception each time it detects an inconsistency at runtime. I can imaging turning this feature on in a staging environment.

From my understanding, this should be possible by setting the sys.settrace hook. It would slow down every function call, but I'm surprised it looks like nobody has done it yet.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#65
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but "sucking so bad its not even funny" is still superior to maven and ant (and as another user mentioned, pipenv is a very good approximation of Cargo, which is a really good build and package management system).

I would take Maven and Ant any day over having to play with virtual environments, multiple Python installations and Python 2/3 dictonomy.

You mean dichotomy, and the war is pretty much over everything supports python3 now.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#66

Want to play with it? conda create -n py1 python=1.0 source activate py1 python Python 1.0.1 (Mar 26 2014) Copyright 1991-1994 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam >>> Sorry Windows, only on macOS and Linux.

What about version 0.91? https://www.python.org/download/releases/early/ and http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2009/0... .

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#67
post #35

Python 1.0 is great because back then you don't need to worry about the Python2/3 issue. :)

Is it still an issue really? :/ Have been using Python 3 exclusively in production since about a year ago and it really seems like the whole 2/3 thing is starting to blow over. I haven't found any packages I need that aren't 3 compatible and porting to 3 was really way easier than people had made it out to be.

Yes. Very much still an issue. There's mountains of Python 2 code still out there and loads of software starts with Python 2 and then maybe adds Python 3 support later. Hopefully.

For example [issue #1](https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/issues/1) for Tensorflow - one of the most popular Python packages out there is "add Python 3 support".

It's one of the biggest reasons not to use Python IMO. No other popular language has this issue. The other reasons I wouldn't use Python:

1. Difficult to distribute standalone programs. You end up having to bundle an interpreter which is a pain. 2. So many programs include python interpreters you end up with insane path issues, especially on windows. 3. It's still slow.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#68
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would take Maven and Ant any day over having to play with virtual environments, multiple Python installations and Python 2/3 dictonomy.

You mean dichotomy, and the war is pretty much over everything supports python3 now.

Thanks for the correction.

Pretty much is not everything, for example Cocos2d-x scripts.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#69
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the info. Just curious, what sort of problems are strongly typed languages most suited for? In the sense that which class of problems can be solved using them leading to elegant solutions.

There's a famous quote by Linus Torvalds: "Bad programmers worry about the code. Good programmers worry about data structures and their relationships." Even when prototyping, I find that nailing down the data structures from the get-go makes subsequent code-writing much easier. A lot of times, the code kind of falls out naturally when you've figured out the data structures you're working with. Strongly-typed language…

And Fred Brooks, from _The Mythical Man-Month_: "Show me your flowcharts and conceal your tables, and I shall continue to be mystified. Show me your tables, and I won’t usually need your flowcharts; they’ll be obvious."

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#70
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the info. Just curious, what sort of problems are strongly typed languages most suited for? In the sense that which class of problems can be solved using them leading to elegant solutions.

There's a famous quote by Linus Torvalds: "Bad programmers worry about the code. Good programmers worry about data structures and their relationships." Even when prototyping, I find that nailing down the data structures from the get-go makes subsequent code-writing much easier. A lot of times, the code kind of falls out naturally when you've figured out the data structures you're working with. Strongly-typed language…

It has been my experience that “data-structures” in real world situations and especially within code directly facing consumers varies a lot more compared to what any pre-implementation data design process can predict (I’d even say that the structure of a lousy data-input form on a god-forsaken website has the potential to change a lot more often compared to the intrinsic structure of the Linux kernel). Dynamic languages (like python or even php) are very good at tackling this real life situation, hence their popularity.
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