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Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

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Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#31

Post by ageofwant »

foepys wrote: post #22
kumarvvr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why Python can't replace Java in almost all domains. It's exceptionally well structured and fast enough for most use cases.

Java's tooling support blows Python's tooling support right out of the water. The static type system of Java allows faster refactoring and IMHO makes development of large applications easier and less error prone. I use Python for simple scripts and often for data transformation. But e.g. at work we have a few million lines of C# that I would never ever want to manage if it was written in Python.

I always find it peculiar that people seem to defend a million line code base, like that is something to be proud off. The days I walk out of the office with less code in some mature project's repo are the days I know I accomplished the most.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#32

Post by ageofwant »

y4mi wrote: post #27
kumarvvr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be the most efficient one out there, but it certainly is the most productive, atleast for me. God I love the language. The only language, that allows my thoughts to flow alongside writing code that allows my thoughts to manifest. I am well experienced with C# as well, but something about statically typed stuff (I worked with C# before the dynamic stuff wasn't added to it) breaks the flow of thoughts. With…

It would be great to still have static constraints as an option though. I absolutely love the free form in the prototype phase, but once I've got that one nailed and want to make it maintainable... well, I always miss it at that time.

Yea thats what mypy is for, and that fits my workflow too: Rapidly prototype once the API has stabilised, I add the typehints.

For unfammilliar codebases using MonkeyType is now a option too.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#33

Post by willtim »

kumarvvr wrote: post #13
thinkpad20 wrote: post #9

Interesting to read his description of the language, which sounds pretty much exactly like python is now. It’s a pretty good testament to why python gained and retained popularity. Though not without fault, python is certainly one of the best-designed languages ever created, in my opinion.

It may not be the most efficient one out there, but it certainly is the most productive, atleast for me. God I love the language. The only language, that allows my thoughts to flow alongside writing code that allows my thoughts to manifest. I am well experienced with C# as well, but something about statically typed stuff (I worked with C# before the dynamic stuff wasn't added to it) breaks the flow of thoughts. With…

C# does not in any way represent the best that static typing has to offer. Try F#, Haskell or OCaml seriously before discounting static typing. These functional languages offer much better safety (e.g. no nulls, no casts, case exhaustiveness) and are as succinct as Python. They also generalise a lot of features that are ad-hoc in C# and Python (e.g. async-await is a library in F# and Haskell). For me, using Haskell is also like "designing a system in paper, friction free". In fact, I tend to write down the types and type check them, before I attempt to fill in any implementation.

Truth be told, I am not a Python fan. I am seeing it take over in my industry, because it's superficially 'easy' and it's popular. The lack of static typing only later becomes a big problem when large codebases start to appear with many contributors.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#34

Post by joshuamorton »

diebir wrote: post #24
kumarvvr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why Python can't replace Java in almost all domains. It's exceptionally well structured and fast enough for most use cases.

For one, the package management in Python sucks so bad it's not funny. This alone is a reason enough for me to never touch Python again.

Yes but "sucking so bad its not even funny" is still superior to maven and ant (and as another user mentioned, pipenv is a very good approximation of Cargo, which is a really good build and package management system).

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#36

Post by kumarvvr »

willtim wrote: post #33
kumarvvr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be the most efficient one out there, but it certainly is the most productive, atleast for me. God I love the language. The only language, that allows my thoughts to flow alongside writing code that allows my thoughts to manifest. I am well experienced with C# as well, but something about statically typed stuff (I worked with C# before the dynamic stuff wasn't added to it) breaks the flow of thoughts. With…

C# does not in any way represent the best that static typing has to offer. Try F#, Haskell or OCaml seriously before discounting static typing. These functional languages offer much better safety (e.g. no nulls, no casts, case exhaustiveness) and are as succinct as Python. They also generalise a lot of features that are ad-hoc in C# and Python (e.g. async-await is a library in F# and Haskell). For me, using Haskell i…

Any good resources on learning how to solve problems by leveraging strong type systems?

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#37

Post by baq »

willtim wrote: post #33
kumarvvr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be the most efficient one out there, but it certainly is the most productive, atleast for me. God I love the language. The only language, that allows my thoughts to flow alongside writing code that allows my thoughts to manifest. I am well experienced with C# as well, but something about statically typed stuff (I worked with C# before the dynamic stuff wasn't added to it) breaks the flow of thoughts. With…

C# does not in any way represent the best that static typing has to offer. Try F#, Haskell or OCaml seriously before discounting static typing. These functional languages offer much better safety (e.g. no nulls, no casts, case exhaustiveness) and are as succinct as Python. They also generalise a lot of features that are ad-hoc in C# and Python (e.g. async-await is a library in F# and Haskell). For me, using Haskell i…

Mypy, while somewhat bolted on and relegated to linter space, does an amazingly good job at bringing modern static typing to Python. Highly recommended to at least test drive it.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#38

Post by willtim »

kumarvvr wrote: post #36
willtim wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C# does not in any way represent the best that static typing has to offer. Try F#, Haskell or OCaml seriously before discounting static typing. These functional languages offer much better safety (e.g. no nulls, no casts, case exhaustiveness) and are as succinct as Python. They also generalise a lot of features that are ad-hoc in C# and Python (e.g. async-await is a library in F# and Haskell). For me, using Haskell i…

Any good resources on learning how to solve problems by leveraging strong type systems?

There's "Real World OCaml" (new) and "Real World Haskell" (a bit out of date). But my favourite introductory text, which is not free, is Graham Hutton's "Programming in Haskell".

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#39

Post by pjmlp »

kumarvvr wrote: post #21
pjmlp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe one day, when CPython guys start taking JIT seriously and finally get rid of GIL.

Isn't multiprocessing + caching like Redis a good enough workaround? I know that it works well for web applications. Not sure about other domains.

The day Python performance gets good enough for companies to even think about doing a complete OS userspace on it, maybe.

Until then, no.

Re: Python 1.0.0 is out (1994)

#40

Post by pjmlp »

ageofwant wrote: post #26
pjmlp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of companies across the world don't have any repository on Github. Github is for FOSS projects, or building CV portfolios for startups that think we don't have anything else to do after work.

Not so sure about that. Most company repos are private though, like the one I work for.

I am yet to work for any customer that cares about git for example, so not even private repos.

So far my use of git has been on personal projects.

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