Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why American men are getting less marriageable

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 121 posts

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#111

Post by Toast_25 »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #69
PuffinBlue wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution, in my opinion, would be to continue to erase traditional gender roles. If most of the men out there were ready to take on the homemaker role enthusiastically, I would be far more willing to consider them as partners even if they make a fraction of what I do. The solution is not merely one sided. Women must also be willing to 'give up' those roles. Say what you will about men stepping up but my ongoing…

> The solution is not merely one sided. Thinking in terms of "sides", "them", "us" is harmful. Sexism can be internalized by anybody.

What would be a better way to express his point?

I see this brought up a lot, and I get it: we SHOULD be able to treat everybody equally regardless of the bits between their legs, but we haven't gotten there yet.

I think it's counterproductive to be pedantic about language when it's serving a purpose and not hurting anyone. If someone brings up a better way to express this type of thing, then I'll be in total agreement, but I haven't found a better way to do so using the english language.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#112

Post by ameister14 »

pentae wrote: post #35

So if I read the article correctly, the average American male has lost his job due to economic forces as well as gender equality, but it's also his fault and his responsibility to change. Seems fair.

Yep. Doesn't have to be fair, though - it's more important to deal with the world as it is and take control of what you can than see who should be blamed or pass responsibility.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#113

Post by philipov »

romanovcode wrote: post #82
moltar wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a study that showed that the more chores a husband does the less sexually attractive his wife finds him. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-who-do-housew...

It's pretty clear that by doing those chores he is emasculating himself and thus making himself less attractive partner to the women. I don't want to be a dick here but one cannot cheat the biological psychology of gender dynamics in a whim. Maybe someday, but as it currently stands it is just the way it is and there is nothing one can do about it.

Human gender dynamics are not dominated by tournament behavior. Pair bonding dynamics favor men who share in the chores. Humans demonstrate both tournament and pair bonding behaviors about evenly, on a complicated spectrum, and so anecdotal evidence is particularly bad at representing reality. Additionally, human psychology is not dominated by genetics like in other animals, so upbringing and culture are strong, sometimes overriding factors. Learn your biology before you start spewing MRA crap.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#114

Post by Gatsky »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #90
Gatsky wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only one X chromosome and a massive sense of entitlement.

I don't follow your logic. I feel like it could be interpreted as misandristic. Could you expand upon your view? Why do you think men will become obsolete?

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end...

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#115

Post by watwut »

badminton1 wrote: post #110
watwut wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sort of makes sense. Lets say that you are housewife that believes female purpose is in being housewife. Automation freed up time quite a lot, but did not changed your believes about your own purpose. So what you gonna do? Doing crosswords for hours or watching tv for hours is lazy. So, you just continue to spend time on what you perceive as your purpose, to be better at it. And maybe, Betty over the street did…

It's largely subjective. You can set an unrealistic standard of cleanliness, like: polishing doorknobs, cleaning windows, the roof and the basement every day. Or do your cleaning routine twice per day, or 3 times... when does it stop? Then, at some moment cleaning has diminishing returns and becomes redundant. Plus, day to day activities may require to make things dirty temporarily, and wanting to preserve a permanen…

It never stops. The more you clean, the better you get at seeing parts that are not absolutely super clean. Kinda like refactoring code base. Until you find something that makes more sense to do.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#116

Post by pentae »

ameister14 wrote: post #112
pentae wrote: post #35

So if I read the article correctly, the average American male has lost his job due to economic forces as well as gender equality, but it's also his fault and his responsibility to change. Seems fair.

Yep. Doesn't have to be fair, though - it's more important to deal with the world as it is and take control of what you can than see who should be blamed or pass responsibility.

I Agree. However, I'm not the average American male. It seems to me like 'he' is getting a bit of a raw deal while simultaneously being blamed for everything these days.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#117

Post by jacknews »

cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

> The solution, in my opinion, would be to continue to erase traditional gender roles.

I don't think you can just erase gender roles. I think in any relationship there is a "masculine" role and a "feminine" role, and currently men tend to fill the former, and women that later.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#118

Post by moltar »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #86
moltar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if we are erasing the gender roles completely, then women should also start fixing faucets, toilets, taking out garbage at night and doing other traditionaly male jobs. So far I have never seen this happen.

The frequency of needing to fix things versus doing routine chores is what makes those roles not comparable. Not that women also can't help fix things, and I'm sure some do.

It’s not comparable in terms of hours spent. But could be comparable in effort spent.

You can’t trade 1 hour of McDonalds employee for 1 hour of car mechanic, for example. It’s not a fair trade. (And I’m not saying here that these are women’s and men’s roles. Just providing an example.)

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#119

Post by romanovcode »

philipov wrote: post #113
romanovcode wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty clear that by doing those chores he is emasculating himself and thus making himself less attractive partner to the women. I don't want to be a dick here but one cannot cheat the biological psychology of gender dynamics in a whim. Maybe someday, but as it currently stands it is just the way it is and there is nothing one can do about it.

Human gender dynamics are not dominated by tournament behavior. Pair bonding dynamics favor men who share in the chores. Humans demonstrate both tournament and pair bonding behaviors about evenly, on a complicated spectrum, and so anecdotal evidence is particularly bad at representing reality. Additionally, human psychology is not dominated by genetics like in other animals, so upbringing and culture are strong, some…

I am by no means MRA and I do believe it is complete crap. I just said how I view it and why it makes complete sense to me.

> so upbringing and culture are strong

This is the main point and this is why I said that current generation cannot change itself, the next ones might tho.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#120

Post by eeZah7Ux »

Toast_25 wrote: post #111
eeZah7Ux wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is not merely one sided. Thinking in terms of "sides", "them", "us" is harmful. Sexism can be internalized by anybody.

What would be a better way to express his point? I see this brought up a lot, and I get it: we SHOULD be able to treat everybody equally regardless of the bits between their legs, but we haven't gotten there yet. I think it's counterproductive to be pedantic about language when it's serving a purpose and not hurting anyone. If someone brings up a better way to express this type of thing, then I'll be in total agreeme…

You cannot find a better a better sentence than one starting with "Women must also"?

How about: "Some people, regardless of gender, can perpetuate or reinforce gender roles through speech, action or inaction."

"Some people should be willing to give up traditional gender roles."

Post reply on HN