Free instant transfer was my favorite part of Square Cash, too bad they now charge a 1% fee.
I do not understand how same-day vs next day is such a big deal.
And 1% fee is like 400% annual percentage rate. Is that even legal?
Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
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Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#22Listening the HT Guys podcast earlier today highlighted that apparently your transactions are not private by default—one of the hosts could inspect his contacts’ dealings with impunity. In Denmark, we have MobilePay and it is everywhere—I very rarely need to use cash to pay someone, and it certainly has made sharing a restaurant bill a breeze.
When I used Venmo for the first time, I had this concern as well, but the cost of the transaction is private to everyone outside of the parties involved (and this isn't an options choice). I switched all my transactions to private, personally, but the public by default nature of Venmo seems very intentional. They're trying to create a social network like atmosphere around payments it seems.
That only became true recently. Used to be public by default
Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Venmo has pretty strong network effects, to the point that its users use “Venmo” as a verb. That will be tough to overcome.
Zelle is usable out of the box with Chase and Bank of America in the respective banks apps (and I'm guessing other participating banks) it's kind of a paypal for banks that just works.
That may be true, but it doesn’t mean customers are going to use it. The fact that millions of 20-30 year olds in the USA tell each other “Venmo me” is quite a bit of inertia to overcome.
Then again, perhaps Zelle will capture the non 20-30 demographic, which is presumably quite large. Most 20-30 year olds have both their banking app(s) and Venmo installed, whereas many in the 30+ demographic have only their banking app.
In the 30+ demographic, Zelle is a new entrant to the “peer-to-peer payments” market, and has a first-mover advantage. Since this demographic is not as intimately familiar with p2p payments as the 20-30 demographic, Zelle has the opportunity to concept of peer-to-peer payments. That is, Zelle has a clear playing field in the battle for the “tipping-point” mindshare required to solidify its first-mover advantage in certain markets.
It would be interesting to map the “real” human social graph, and then overlay app usage onto it.
Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#24Zelle [1] moves money in minutes, with no charge [2], as long as your bank is a participating institution [3] and you've previously enrolled. Hard to see Paypal competing against a syndicate owned by major financial institutions (Bank of America, BB&T, Capital One, JPMorgan Chase, PNC Bank, US Bank, and Wells Fargo). At the same time, all of these efforts die as soon as ACH modernization arrives [4], as shown by SWIF…
All of your lofty pronouncements are predicated on the opinion that speedier money movement is in high demand which has been shown over and over to be false.
Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#25Zelle [1] moves money in minutes, with no charge [2], as long as your bank is a participating institution [3] and you've previously enrolled. Hard to see Paypal competing against a syndicate owned by major financial institutions (Bank of America, BB&T, Capital One, JPMorgan Chase, PNC Bank, US Bank, and Wells Fargo). At the same time, all of these efforts die as soon as ACH modernization arrives [4], as shown by SWIF…
This is totally anecdotal, but I (and apparently many other people online) have had pretty terrible experiences with Zelle, moreso than I've noticed with other fintech services.
A family member tried to send me money, which used to work perfectly fine via the bank's older transfer methods (including PopMoney), but once the bank switched to Zelle they somehow lost the transaction completely because my bank had yet to integrate with it.
Zelle's app and help pages were terrible and directed me to create an account and download the app to get the money out. I did that and the money was still nowhere to be found. The bank customer service wouldn't touch it because it was Zelle's fault, and my family member apparently had to wait on hold for an extremely long time with Zelle to get it sorted out and get the money back in their account. I can only imagine how much of a nightmare that could have been for less financially-secure or tech-forward people.
Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#26Zelle [1] moves money in minutes, with no charge [2], as long as your bank is a participating institution [3] and you've previously enrolled. Hard to see Paypal competing against a syndicate owned by major financial institutions (Bank of America, BB&T, Capital One, JPMorgan Chase, PNC Bank, US Bank, and Wells Fargo). At the same time, all of these efforts die as soon as ACH modernization arrives [4], as shown by SWIF…
Venmo has pretty strong network effects, to the point that its users use “Venmo” as a verb. That will be tough to overcome.
I use both Venmo and Zelle (through BOA). Zelle gets used by me for "real" transfers that are recurring or large one-offs. The large one-offs I still confirm in advance, because people can have multiple bank accounts and not know where their email/phone is linked. (I think it's the last one setup).
For anything small or group-related, I use Venmo. Largely because everyone (that I've ever exchanged $ with) in my social group uses it, and it's quick and easy. Examples include: food splitting, having one person buy event tickets and paying them back, airbnb/party costs, and fantasy football due collection.
So I agree, Venmo is going to be tough to overcome, I don't see anyone in my group switching to Zelle anytime soon. Zelle would have to do a lot of marketing to even get people to understand that they can do it. I was skeptical the first time I sent money with Zelle and the only reason I tried it was because BoA replaced their transfers with it.
Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#27Free instant transfer was my favorite part of Square Cash, too bad they now charge a 1% fee.
I do not understand how same-day vs next day is such a big deal. And 1% fee is like 400% annual percentage rate. Is that even legal?
It’s not a loan, and the 1% fee isn’t an interest rate, so annualization doesn’t make sense and usury laws don’t apply.
Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#28Zelle [1] moves money in minutes, with no charge [2], as long as your bank is a participating institution [3] and you've previously enrolled. Hard to see Paypal competing against a syndicate owned by major financial institutions (Bank of America, BB&T, Capital One, JPMorgan Chase, PNC Bank, US Bank, and Wells Fargo). At the same time, all of these efforts die as soon as ACH modernization arrives [4], as shown by SWIF…
All of your lofty pronouncements are predicated on the opinion that speedier money movement is in high demand which has been shown over and over to be false.
The demand and uptake of person to person funds transfers in other markets is obvious.
People don’t care the money moves drastically faster, banks most definitely want to save on the costs of these transactions.
Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Venmo doesn't have the capabilities of a checking account, which most adults need and Venmo is unlikely to offer (direct deposit, bill pay, etc).
I didn't read the previous comment as a suggestion that they were looking to Venmo as an alternative to a checking account, but rather as a purse where money goes temporarily until it ends up at the final destination: said checking account (or another user or service that takes payments from venmo). That's how I and many services I use-like the furniture movers I paid a few weeks back-the App Or have I misunderstood…
My thesis is Venmo is a feature, not a product. Real banks will eventually replace the need for it (technically, they already have; the UX needs some catching up).
Re: Venmo can now instantly transfer money to your debit card for 25 cents
#30This is similar to what Google Wallet does right?
Google Wallet doesn't charge you, though.