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Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

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Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#51

Post by plandis »

montrose wrote: post #50

Notice what's at the very end. The head of Dutch intelligence says that because Trump is president, he shares less with the US: "AIVD director Bertholee stated that he is extra careful when it comes to sharing intelligence with the U.S., now that Donald Trump is President." The mere fact that Trump is president is harming US security. And the head of Dutch intelligence is willing to say so publicly. That is pretty st…

That's what Trumps supporters want though, right? As much isolation from the outside world as possible. His supporters probably see this as MAGA-ing:-/

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#52

Post by [deleted] »

joshuahedlund wrote: post #37
guilhas wrote: post #34

What's worse DNC dirts or who exposed them? Also what about Seth Rich, wasn't he involved in DNC leaks?

Nope. https://www.snopes.com/seth-rich-dnc-wikileaks-murder/ (Fox gave this conspiracy an air of legitimacy despite no evidence, and then quietly removed the stories from their website without ever apologizing or clarifying.)

[deleted]

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#53

Post by microtonal »

montrose wrote: post #50

Notice what's at the very end. The head of Dutch intelligence says that because Trump is president, he shares less with the US: "AIVD director Bertholee stated that he is extra careful when it comes to sharing intelligence with the U.S., now that Donald Trump is President." The mere fact that Trump is president is harming US security. And the head of Dutch intelligence is willing to say so publicly. That is pretty st…

I think he is implicitly saying that the problem with the Trump administration is that they tend to 'blurt out' sensitive information.

If this is really true:

As of now, the AIVD hackers do not seem to have access to Cozy Bear any longer. Sources suggest that the openness of US intelligence sources, who in 2017 praised the help of a Western ally in news stories, may have ruined their operation. The openness caused great anger in The Hague and Zoetermeer.

That'd quite a catastrophic/dumb mistake.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#54

Post by 52-6F-62 »

microtonal wrote: post #53
montrose wrote: post #50

Notice what's at the very end. The head of Dutch intelligence says that because Trump is president, he shares less with the US: "AIVD director Bertholee stated that he is extra careful when it comes to sharing intelligence with the U.S., now that Donald Trump is President." The mere fact that Trump is president is harming US security. And the head of Dutch intelligence is willing to say so publicly. That is pretty st…

I think he is implicitly saying that the problem with the Trump administration is that they tend to 'blurt out' sensitive information. If this is really true: As of now, the AIVD hackers do not seem to have access to Cozy Bear any longer. Sources suggest that the openness of US intelligence sources, who in 2017 praised the help of a Western ally in news stories, may have ruined their operation. The openness caused gr…

There was also the instance of Trump sharing Israeli intelligence with the Russian ambassador when they visited the White House. (in the meeting where Trump blocked all American press, and only allowed a Russian photographer into the room)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump...

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#55

Post by ThomPete »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #46
ThomPete wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying the article is saying that. I am simply wondering why it's been tied to the election then. If the CIA and NSA were aware of this going on, unless they are outright incompetent and Obama didn't care then they must have known all along that they were being broken into.

Obama knew and wanted to alert the public. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell informed Obama that if he did carry out the alert that he would cry partisan politics and interference in the election by the sitting administration. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-mcconnell-wanted-no-part-... https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/12/why-d...

Why would he alert the public? Why not just deal with it internally? But i can see that this discussion is already getting toxic with the amount of downvotes so whatevs.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#56

Post by 52-6F-62 »

ThomPete wrote: post #55
52-6F-62 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama knew and wanted to alert the public. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell informed Obama that if he did carry out the alert that he would cry partisan politics and interference in the election by the sitting administration. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-mcconnell-wanted-no-part-... https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/12/why-d...

Why would he alert the public? Why not just deal with it internally? But i can see that this discussion is already getting toxic with the amount of downvotes so whatevs.

By that point the US was actively seeing known Russian attempts to penetrate various electoral systems. He probably would have had to call for a delay of the election or something equally drastic.

You can imagine the uproar that would follow.

Shortly after the election the US expelled 35 diplomats and shuttered a Russian-owned compound.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/29/barack-obama...

That, and the FBI had started an investigation into the interference (which is often decried as a hoax or other silly terms). The CIA and NSA had been working on it for some time, however if you read the article, the Russian actors had already penetrated other state services and were moving moving quickly. It was a cat and mouse game at that point.

Members of the senate signed a letter noting that they were aware of Russia's interference and called for them to stop when the president couldn't speak publicly about it.

I'm curious about what other acts you suggest he could have pursued.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#57

Post by Balgair »

eropple wrote: post #42
jacquesm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea how much damage the Trump administration has done to America's relations abroad.

I am reasonably sure that most Americans you'd talk you somewhere like HN are aware. Even if they pretend they aren't.

The shit-house/hole fiasco alone, Jesus...

I mean, come on man. Play the chess game out just two moves. Look at East Africa, for Christ's sake. They are being courted by the Chinese something fierce. And Donny just gives any anti-US factions a golden goose of political talking points. Now what are the in-power/pro-US factions supposed to do? The hamstringing of our allies is plain stupid.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#58

Post by Balgair »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #54
microtonal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he is implicitly saying that the problem with the Trump administration is that they tend to 'blurt out' sensitive information. If this is really true: As of now, the AIVD hackers do not seem to have access to Cozy Bear any longer. Sources suggest that the openness of US intelligence sources, who in 2017 praised the help of a Western ally in news stories, may have ruined their operation. The openness caused gr…

There was also the instance of Trump sharing Israeli intelligence with the Russian ambassador when they visited the White House. (in the meeting where Trump blocked all American press, and only allowed a Russian photographer into the room) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump...

Or (possibly) our subs in NK waters:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-subma...

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#59

Post by GrumpyNl »

This news comes at a very peculiar time and thats why i dont trust it. Yes i believe they are capable of the hack but the news comes at the best time for the aivd and the best time for the Clinton camp with deep state under research. Have to see how this develops

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#60

Post by IntronExon »

Maarten88 wrote: post #6
apexalpha wrote: post #2

Apparently Dutch intel had pretty deep access into the Russian systems. Going so far as even screenshotting people's faces as they appear on their security cameras. Read this article; an in depth analasys directly from source.: https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-cruci... Seriously, everyone here will find this a fascinating read. It's almost like a thriller. From the article: Using so-called comma…

I'm actually impressed by our AIVD. Being Dutch, I always assumed our intelligence service were sheep in a world of wild animals; SAP consultants among elite hackers. This shows I was wrong, they seem to be actually competent and doing good work. Maybe I'll even rethink my opinion on the dragnet surveillance law that we will be voting on...

If you don’t have a giant military force, national security starts to critically depend on intelligence.
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