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Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

nos.nl

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Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#21

Post by apexalpha »

the-dude wrote: post #19
Maarten88 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outlets who published this news (Volkskrant and NOS) are reliable, and even the responsible minister has more-or-less confirmed the story. Of course, this news comes at a time when there is a (non-binding) ballot coming about dragnet surveillance here. So clearly this news is helpful for some parties.

NOS is our public broadcaster and is by definition not independent. Volkskrant is known to fabricate fake news long before the word existed ( i.e. the 'Martel hoax' )

You're pretty foolish to make such blatant statements without any source to back it up. Just because the NOS is a public broadcaster doesn't mean they're not independnant.

Actually by law the goverment has no say in it's content and it is in no way beholden to corporate interests since it is a non-profit that doesn't need ads.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#22

Post by m12k »

the-dude wrote: post #11
nl wrote: post #10

It's not completely surprising the Dutch were looking into Cozy Bear. The Dutch led the investigation into the MH17 shoot-down, and Russian misinformation groups (of which Cozy Bear was one) have been working hard on that, too.

Apparently this started before the MH17 shootdown.

Do you see a date anywhere? All I could read in the article was that JSCU was launched in 'the summer of 2014' and received a tip about Cozy Bear that same summer. And MH17 was shot down July 17, 2014, so it seems like it depends entirely on a precise date for that tip whether it happened before or after the shootdown.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#23

Post by rollulus »

Maarten88 wrote: post #6
apexalpha wrote: post #2

Apparently Dutch intel had pretty deep access into the Russian systems. Going so far as even screenshotting people's faces as they appear on their security cameras. Read this article; an in depth analasys directly from source.: https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-cruci... Seriously, everyone here will find this a fascinating read. It's almost like a thriller. From the article: Using so-called comma…

I'm actually impressed by our AIVD. Being Dutch, I always assumed our intelligence service were sheep in a world of wild animals; SAP consultants among elite hackers. This shows I was wrong, they seem to be actually competent and doing good work. Maybe I'll even rethink my opinion on the dragnet surveillance law that we will be voting on...

A few years ago I participated in the AIVD's cyber challenge. It involved reverse engineering an executable, spotting a flaw in the (custom) crypto algorithm which made it brute-forcable and then finally going to some train station where a final clue was hidden. After that, we, the people who solved the puzzle (5 or 6 iirc) were invited to the AIVD offices for a chat with the authors and a bit of PR and a tour through the museum (during which the big boss offered jobs (whispering) to a few of us). I was impressed by their skills, never expected that from government people really.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#24

Post by davedx »

Maarten88 wrote: post #6
apexalpha wrote: post #2

Apparently Dutch intel had pretty deep access into the Russian systems. Going so far as even screenshotting people's faces as they appear on their security cameras. Read this article; an in depth analasys directly from source.: https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-cruci... Seriously, everyone here will find this a fascinating read. It's almost like a thriller. From the article: Using so-called comma…

I'm actually impressed by our AIVD. Being Dutch, I always assumed our intelligence service were sheep in a world of wild animals; SAP consultants among elite hackers. This shows I was wrong, they seem to be actually competent and doing good work. Maybe I'll even rethink my opinion on the dragnet surveillance law that we will be voting on...

I checked their website this morning and they're hiring too. :)

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#25

Post by the-dude »

m12k wrote: post #22
the-dude wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently this started before the MH17 shootdown.

Do you see a date anywhere? All I could read in the article was that JSCU was launched in 'the summer of 2014' and received a tip about Cozy Bear that same summer. And MH17 was shot down July 17, 2014, so it seems like it depends entirely on a precise date for that tip whether it happened before or after the shootdown.

It seems you are right, it is unclear and it could be both.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#26

Post by ThomPete »

empath75 wrote: post #7
ThomPete wrote: post #4

so this is back in 2014? long before the election.

They started investigating the group in 2014 but the hacking continued up through the election.

But if they knew it was going on it can hardly have been relevant for the election.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#27

Post by pdpi »

Maarten88 wrote: post #6
apexalpha wrote: post #2

Apparently Dutch intel had pretty deep access into the Russian systems. Going so far as even screenshotting people's faces as they appear on their security cameras. Read this article; an in depth analasys directly from source.: https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-cruci... Seriously, everyone here will find this a fascinating read. It's almost like a thriller. From the article: Using so-called comma…

I'm actually impressed by our AIVD. Being Dutch, I always assumed our intelligence service were sheep in a world of wild animals; SAP consultants among elite hackers. This shows I was wrong, they seem to be actually competent and doing good work. Maybe I'll even rethink my opinion on the dragnet surveillance law that we will be voting on...

It’s slightly paradoxical that we can recognise the competent intelligence outfits, but the elite are, by nature of their work, indistinguishable from the timidly inept

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#28

Post by acdha »

the-dude wrote: post #19
Maarten88 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outlets who published this news (Volkskrant and NOS) are reliable, and even the responsible minister has more-or-less confirmed the story. Of course, this news comes at a time when there is a (non-binding) ballot coming about dragnet surveillance here. So clearly this news is helpful for some parties.

NOS is our public broadcaster and is by definition not independent. Volkskrant is known to fabricate fake news long before the word existed ( i.e. the 'Martel hoax' )

Do you have any citations on that? Remember, “fake news” doesn’t mean “the story wasn’t good for my political side” or “a reporter made a mistake” but rather the blatant attempt to pass propaganda off as accurate without correction. Real news organizations aren’t perfect but they do retract stories and fire people.

Re: Dutch intelligence first to alert U.S. about Russian hack of Democratic Party

#30

Post by Cthulhu_ »

nl wrote: post #10

It's not completely surprising the Dutch were looking into Cozy Bear. The Dutch led the investigation into the MH17 shoot-down, and Russian misinformation groups (of which Cozy Bear was one) have been working hard on that, too.

Now I wonder if the US, as a return favor, shared their intel on the MH17 incident too. I mean that was an actual act of physical aggression by the Russians where citizens died - something that hasn't happened between Russia and the US, well, ever.
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