I think the job/economy weights much less then the fact that marriage gives absolutely zero benefits for men in western society and implies a lot of risks.
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Why American men are getting less marriageable
51–60 of 121 posts
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#52So if I read the article correctly, the average American male has lost his job due to economic forces as well as gender equality, but it's also his fault and his responsibility to change. Seems fair.
You're making the classic mistake of confusing a group of people and an individual. If there's a group of people that are doing poorly, and external reasons are at fault, we can say that the external reasons are to blame. Yet if a reasonable percentage of that group are doing relatively well, and there is a clear path to improvement for that individual, then that individual also has responsibility to improve their si…
> …and there is a clear path to improvement for that individual, then that individual also has responsibility to improve their situation.
If only all individuals could agree on what would be defined as an acceptable improvement one should should pursue…
It's not too hard to see that some people might make choices where they would define it as an improvement for their life, but come at the expense of/be in conflict with what a larger group would define as an improvement.
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Until the divorce, then men get wrecked financially most of the time, losing houses, half the money, forced to pay alimony.
You pay alimony only if you expected women to give up work for marriage.
You also pay off she says, "I don't want to work." Considering that it's illegal (as it should be) to force your spouse to work (or stay at home), your point is irrelevant.
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Until the divorce, then men get wrecked financially most of the time, losing houses, half the money, forced to pay alimony.
You pay alimony only if you expected women to give up work for marriage.
In practice it's very difficult to prove you didn't. So even if she lost her job for unrelated causes or simply quit against your wishes, juries tend to concede alimony unless you make disproportionate efforts to produce proof.
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a woman, the solution is to know what you want. House care is not an obligation. You can pay people to clean or just accept to have a relative untidyness in your home. You don't have to have children either (which is a burden I don't think is ever equally shared). The problem is the pressure women put on themselves, out of social mimicry. I don't give a shit if I'm not the perfect housekeeper, that's not my goal i…
That is assuming that a household can afford it, which is not always the case. Then, historically, before house appliances, the burden of home tasks was brutal. No washing machines, driers, dishwashers, vacuum cleaners, microwave ovens, no instant or fast food, etc. What can now be done in a few minutes used to take hours, and require more work, to the point it was a full time occupation. I am glad this is no longer…
Hans Rosling has a talk dedicated to just the effect of the washing machine on female emancipation:
https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_and_the_magic_washing...
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
AFAIK marriage does give enormous significant breaks in most western societies.
No tax breaks in the UK, haven’t been in a looooong time, with the sole exception of inheritance
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#57> They reference recent results from the World Values Survey, where respondents were asked how much they agreed with the claim that, "If a woman earns more money than her husband, it's almost certain to cause problems."
That sounds a bit to me like a push poll. I wonder if you phrased the question in a gender-neutral way how the responses would change.
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#58I think the job/economy weights much less then the fact that marriage gives absolutely zero benefits for men in western society and implies a lot of risks.
AFAIK marriage does give enormous significant breaks in most western societies.
It might in the US. I haven't noticed any difference here in Sweden. The only practical differences involve inheritance and child custody in the event of my wife dying.
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#59Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…
> Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife almost always ends up both doing more and spending more mental energy on the home.
A lot of people here seem to assume that living together and being married it's the same thing.
You can have one without the other. Please don't make this assumption.
Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable
#60Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…
If the husbands aren't doing more than their share around the house they are not really woke but just nodding in agreement. Having said that, I agree that women spend more 'mental' energy on the home as they are the ones being judged by friends and family. The solution is to task husbands with more of the unskilled labor household chores.