Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why American men are getting less marriageable

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 121 posts

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#41

Post by brightball »

cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

For what it’s worth, we are really good at lifting heavy things and reaching stuff on high shelves. :)

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#42

Post by hycaria »

cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

As a woman, the solution is to know what you want. House care is not an obligation. You can pay people to clean or just accept to have a relative untidyness in your home. You don't have to have children either (which is a burden I don't think is ever equally shared).

The problem is the pressure women put on themselves, out of social mimicry. I don't give a shit if I'm not the perfect housekeeper, that's not my goal in life, and many things are more exciting than this to me.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#43

Post by hycaria »

PuffinBlue wrote: post #20
cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

> The solution, in my opinion, would be to continue to erase traditional gender roles. If most of the men out there were ready to take on the homemaker role enthusiastically, I would be far more willing to consider them as partners even if they make a fraction of what I do. The solution is not merely one sided. Women must also be willing to 'give up' those roles. Say what you will about men stepping up but my ongoing…

>New Resolutions has brought a return to the 'we'll eat healthily, I'll cook every evening and bake at the weekend'

What do yo usually eat then ?

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#44

Post by brightball »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #16
cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

> And if both are breadwinners, almost invariably the homemaking burden falls more heavily on the wife. Which is why I'm in favor of outsourcing (i.e. cleaning, take-out, blue apron). My friends (she's a doctor and he's a product manager) say getting a cleaner is the best thing they could have done for their relationship

We once hired a nanny after our 2nd child was born because the cost was about the same as daycare for 2 kids. We asked her if she’d be up for doing a load of dishes and a load of laundry each day while the kids were taking naps for an increase in her rate and she agreed.

That year and a half or so was the easiest we have ever had. People take for granted how much time laundry absorbs when you have two people working and limited free time.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#45

Post by bryanlarsen »

pentae wrote: post #35

So if I read the article correctly, the average American male has lost his job due to economic forces as well as gender equality, but it's also his fault and his responsibility to change. Seems fair.

You're making the classic mistake of confusing a group of people and an individual.

If there's a group of people that are doing poorly, and external reasons are at fault, we can say that the external reasons are to blame.

Yet if a reasonable percentage of that group are doing relatively well, and there is a clear path to improvement for that individual, then that individual also has responsibility to improve their situation.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#46

Post by badminton1 »

Marital status used to be a thing. Pressure to get married may not only come from your partner, but your family, friends and even strangers. Plus, divorce was frowned upon a lot and shamed. That's not the case anymore.

If people want to get married, then do it. It's not for everyone.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#47

Post by PuffinBlue »

hycaria wrote: post #43
PuffinBlue wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution, in my opinion, would be to continue to erase traditional gender roles. If most of the men out there were ready to take on the homemaker role enthusiastically, I would be far more willing to consider them as partners even if they make a fraction of what I do. The solution is not merely one sided. Women must also be willing to 'give up' those roles. Say what you will about men stepping up but my ongoing…

>New Resolutions has brought a return to the 'we'll eat healthily, I'll cook every evening and bake at the weekend' What do yo usually eat then ?

Pretty much the same thing before and after the change. Fresh vegetables, rice dishes, fresh fish, little pasta, some red meat but mostly white, all home-cooked evening meals with some pre-made shop bought fresh soups and some fresh 'ready-meals'for lunches.

The point I'm making in the section you quoted, and which agrees with your other comment about social mimicry, is that the pressure she faces from herself and others to continue to perform this 'traditional' role means now she is the one who said I'm going to do this, you're not going to.

That's not a position she has to be in, it's one shes chosen and actively maintains precisely because of those pressures, not from necessity.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#48

Post by badminton1 »

hycaria wrote: post #42
cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

As a woman, the solution is to know what you want. House care is not an obligation. You can pay people to clean or just accept to have a relative untidyness in your home. You don't have to have children either (which is a burden I don't think is ever equally shared). The problem is the pressure women put on themselves, out of social mimicry. I don't give a shit if I'm not the perfect housekeeper, that's not my goal i…

That is assuming that a household can afford it, which is not always the case.

Then, historically, before house appliances, the burden of home tasks was brutal. No washing machines, driers, dishwashers, vacuum cleaners, microwave ovens, no instant or fast food, etc. What can now be done in a few minutes used to take hours, and require more work, to the point it was a full time occupation.

I am glad this is no longer the case.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#49

Post by Gatsky »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #33
Gatsky wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why women in Japan have stopped getting married, it's a terrible deal for them as there is no flexibility in gender roles. Men, as they currently exist, are becoming obsolete. There will need to be a great adaptation and reassignment of roles as women will soon surpass men in their 'default' social, financial and political status. Frankly, it isn't going to go down very well. Lets hope that traditiona…

> Men, as they currently exist, are becoming obsolete. There will need to be a great adaptation and reassignment of roles as women will soon surpass men in their 'default' social, financial and political status. @Gatsky that's a strong statement. Would you mind expanding on your definition of "Men, as they currently exist"?

Only one X chromosome and a massive sense of entitlement.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#50

Post by itronitron »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #21
swiley wrote: post #5

Looking at people I know and people I've dated, employability seems like the least interesting thing to women.

That's factually not true, women rarely date down. Women, on average, prefer slightly older men, equally or more educated then themselves, more successful than themselves financially, in good physical shape, dominant/aggressive. That's why we always hear "where did all the good men go?" from women, even though they are surrounded by guys who throw themselves at the women. So since more women and fewer men started goi…

Women may also have higher standards and less interest by virtue of being more exposed to men in the workplace than they were previously.
Post reply on HN