Waze Carpool • Hacker News Board

Re: Waze Carpool

#181

Post by kbenson » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #54

cornholio wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike Uber, they appear to talk about a real carsharing system, as opposed to a taxi service with a lower entry barrier. The prices will be much lower since we are talking about the marginal cost of adding another passenger to an already happening trip - and with full info on where people are going, Waze effectively has an endless supply of trips that are happening, it's just a matter of displaying a pop-up "Hey, Al…

You just described the pure software world solution. What happens when the commuter I pick up vomits in my car? Or steals something from my car? What happens if I get picked up by a person who changes their mind about where they're going? Or decide to take an unplanned detour to go to the store, or back home to grab the laptop they forgot, or to score some heroin? What happens when the driver gropes me? Or I grope th…

> What happens when the commuter I pick up vomits in my car?

Guess you have to use some of that hard earned ridesharing money to deal with the occasional downside such as this. It's not just free money, and anyone that thinks in terms ot cash for ride and that's the only things to think of is naive. You've thought it these scenarios, other people should too, and take that into account when deciding if it's worth it.

> Or steals something from my car?

File a police report.

> What happens if I get picked up by a person who changes their mind about where they're going?

Let them out at the first feasible opportunity, as long as there is some infrastructure (or they accept the location). Let them deal with finding transport from there.

> Or decide to take an unplanned detour to go to the store, or back home to grab the laptop they forgot, or to score some heroin?

Let them out as above, they can secure additional transport on their own.

> What happens when the driver gropes me? Or I grope the driver?

File a police report.

> You absolutely need actual support, it's not going to be minimal-to-zero. Both the driver and the passenger need to be able to pick up a phone number and speak to a real human being who can resolve some sort of issue.

You do need support, but clear and up-front expectations can reduce that quite a bit. I agree Google is horrible at this, and hasn't shown themselves as able to supply even the minimal amount of support I noted above.

I'm honestly surprised that Google doesn't create separate companies to handle actual product sales (and keep the Google name for the product if they feel the need) just to get past this horrible part of their culture. They just can't support anything adequately. Then again, we keep using their products even with this crappy support, so it's not like the market is punishing them enough to make them care. :/

Re: Waze Carpool

#182

Post by majortennis » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

Only in california ...

Re: Waze Carpool

#183

Post by apsec112 » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #99

The number of private tech companies that reinvent the BUS and think they're geniuses is staggering. But god forbid we just fund public transportation. We wouldn't want poor people using our service.

You seem to assume that this service is expensive. I'm really not sure why anyone would think that, other than some notion that Larry Page is a comic book villain who hates the poor. It appears to be cheaper than any other commuting option for most people (~55 cents/mile).

Public transit, at least here in the SF Bay Area, is horribly mismanaged. Google does not have the power to force the 37 independent squabbling agencies here to work together, to force BART to kick obvious criminal activity out of their stations, or to fire anyone when new train stations fall behind schedule fifteen times in a row. Companies that provide good services should not be punished for not being magically omnipotent.

Re: Waze Carpool

#184

Post by jstandard » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

cornholio wrote: post #79

pavel_lishin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described the pure software world solution. What happens when the commuter I pick up vomits in my car? Or steals something from my car? What happens if I get picked up by a person who changes their mind about where they're going? Or decide to take an unplanned detour to go to the store, or back home to grab the laptop they forgot, or to score some heroin? What happens when the driver gropes me? Or I grope th…

The same thing that happens in the non-Waze case: you kick them out, call the police, get mugged etc. The pure software world exists from Google's perspective, they provide zero support and then it's just a matter of individual choice if you want to use the service or not. Google can go a long way into making this significantly safer than random pick-up: you can select female only drivers or riders, only riders from…

I encourage you to read the reviews on the Waze app. "User keeps sending me lewd messages and can still see my trips even though I blocked him" "the system automatically deactivated my account and I couldn't contact anyone".

Sure it's early days and these hiccups will be reduced. But they'll never completely go away and you need human support to resolve these situations. Better filters and software intelligence will help, but they won't be trained enough or effective for a long time.

Re: Waze Carpool

#185

Post by darksaints » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #176

darksaints wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The extremely boring answer to our transportation problems is to properly fund public transportation. We've known the solution for ages, but it's kept down by the wealthy class who don't want to pay for public works that would benefit everyone. I'd say the middle class are the real problem. You see, the primary reason why transit costs so much in taxes is because few people ride it. Few people ride it because drivi…

You'd be destroying a culture of independence in the US punishing car drivers so much, and I don't think it would be nearly worth it. I greatly appreciate being able to just go where I want without having to be beholden to public transit schedules and share the space with a bunch of strangers, and have my own temperature controls etc. The "cost" cars have to society and how "subsidized" they are is ridiculously overb…

> You'd be destroying a culture of independence in the US punishing car drivers so much, and I don't think it would be nearly worth it.

Is it really independence if you can't cover the costs you impose? Sounds an awful lot like the "oppression" felt by angsty teenagers without jobs when they're told they have to empty a dishwasher.

> I greatly appreciate being able to just go where I want without having to be beholden to public transit schedules and share the space with a bunch of strangers, and have my own temperature controls etc.

I'm sure you do. I'd greatly appreciate being able to fly private, for all of the same reasons, but unfortunately I can't afford it. If you want it, you should pay the cost to get it. And that cost is gonna be about $6/gallon in extra taxes.

> The "cost" cars have to society and how "subsidized" they are is ridiculously overblown around here. [...]

Still not enough. As long as cities, states, and the federal government are taking hundreds of billions of dollars out of the general fund to build and maintain roads, you aren't even close to covering your costs. And that would be before congestion charges, carbon taxes, appropriately priced bridge tolls, etc.

What is overblown is the independence and financial responsibility of the average person who merely pays their bills for actions that are heavily subsidized.

Re: Waze Carpool

#186

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

pron wrote: post #90

cornholio wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same thing that happens in the non-Waze case: you kick them out, call the police, get mugged etc. The pure software world exists from Google's perspective, they provide zero support and then it's just a matter of individual choice if you want to use the service or not. Google can go a long way into making this significantly safer than random pick-up: you can select female only drivers or riders, only riders from…

> The same thing that happens in the non-Waze case: you kick them out, call the police, get mugged etc. It's not so simple. Normally people, at least in cities, rarely hitchhike or take up hitchhikers. The goal here is to make it acceptable, and naturally greatly increase the frequency this is happening. This can be reasonably taken as an endorsement by Google to the driver/passenger, because it is -- they want this…

> Normally people, at least in cities, rarely hitchhike or take up hitchhikers.

Hitchhiking is also illegal in most states.

Re: Waze Carpool

#187

Post by Terr_ » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #131

jobigoud wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few month ago I would have read your comment and thought that bus can't really compete for the fine grained point to point transportation. Then I went to Sydney in December. The public transportation system there is super impressive. You have a location-based app where you can tell you want to go from point A to point B (from an address, a click on the map, your favorites), it will instantly provide you with many o…

Hong Kong is this way, too. People gush about the train system in Tokyo (which I have love for) but the sheer number of fast, frequent, and comfortable ways to get around in HK edge it out for me. It seems like every 5 meters there’s a bus stop, and the busses are not old style clunkers but double deckers like Googles take.

As a former HK resident, a lot of it is because of how impractical it is for most people to own and operate a private car.

Returning to the US, it's car-culture and lackluster public transport was jarring.

Re: Waze Carpool

#188

Post by zitterbewegung » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

dawhizkid wrote: post #12

The reason why I would not consider Google to legitimately compete with Uber/Lyft at scale in this arena is because it's not part of their nature to staff customer support at the level required to run operationally-intensive businesses. The rate in which something goes wrong in the real world (esp where money in exchanged) is much higher than in a pure software world, and Google is going to try to take the FAQ/chatbo…

The reason I would consider Google to legitimately compete with them are the following.

1. If they have issues with their system they will create a competitor to it internally.

2. They have the money to subsidize just like uber and lyft.

3. They are the company that could either perform a deal with Elon for his data or buy Tesla out.

4. Since no "contractor" that is employed by uber or lyft have any loyalty torward another it will just drive down prices even more. I'm not sure Uber could survive that or even lyft.

Re: Waze Carpool

#189

Post by jstandard » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

danellis wrote: post #180

pavel_lishin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described the pure software world solution. What happens when the commuter I pick up vomits in my car? Or steals something from my car? What happens if I get picked up by a person who changes their mind about where they're going? Or decide to take an unplanned detour to go to the store, or back home to grab the laptop they forgot, or to score some heroin? What happens when the driver gropes me? Or I grope th…

> What happens when the commuter I pick up vomits in my car? You clean it up and make a decision about whether you'd pick them up again. > Or steals something from my car? You call the police and tell them who that person is and where they live. > What happens if I get picked up by a person who changes their mind about where they're going? You tell them to drop you off and you don't ride with them again. > Or decide…

From a PR standpoint, absolutely yes.

Re: Waze Carpool

#190

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

debaserab2 wrote: post #149

cornholio wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> once you provide a service, you absolutely are on the hook— both ethically and in the mind of the average consumer— for providing some level of service when it goes wrong. The moral and legal liability has precise limits. No software application or payment service could be ever expected to prevent any and all criminal activity in relation to it's use. Google is on the hook, but to a more much limited extent than yo…

Weak legal arguments aside, if Google allows criminals or even just bad drivers/passengers to use the app then people are going to lose their trust in it and stop using it.

Criminals, bad drivers, and bad passengers probably all use casual carpooling opportunities, yet those continue to operate in many urban areas. With even minimal attention to the problem, any app-based solution will have better opportunity to identify and filter out those problems, so while it's a potential issue, I think it's unlikely to be particularly problematic.