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The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

nytimes.com

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Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#101

Post by randomdata »

beambot wrote: post #38
randomdata wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact remains that everyone starts with nothing. The parent questions why some are able to flourish, while others continue with nothing indefinitely.

> The fact remains that everyone starts with nothing. Not even close to true... Simply look at socioeconomic status across generations.

The transfer of wealth through generations is wealth that is still held in family name until the time that it is given to the child. The child still starts with none. Ownership is not automatic in our society. It has to be transferred.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#102

Post by dictum »

11_4_time wrote: post #75

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the U.S. immigration policy (or lack thereof) bears a signification part of the blame here. Why in the face of globalization (and now increased automation) the U.S. continues to have an effectively open-door policy to low-skill workers makes no sense at all. As a U.S. citizen, I'd like to see a return to the temporary moratorium that existed until the mid 1960s (say 10 to 15 yea…

> Why in the face of globalization (and now increased automation) the U.S. continues to have an effectively open-door policy to low-skill workers

This implies that the U.S. is a victim, and not an active participant and benefiter of this system (globalization and increased automation).

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#103

Post by lumberjack »

vec wrote: post #79
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #32

This is the other side of globalization. Globalization is super nice when you're secure in your job, "hey everything is getting cheaper!" but when your job is the one in the crosshairs what you're feeling is a pressure that is pushing the living standard of the third world and yours together. That's why I find it so annoying that this board is usually against abundant H1B's but for factory outsourcing. It's completel…

Okay, but what's the endgame? The writing has been in the wall for anyone to see for decades in most of these industries. An American factory shuttering is a disappointment, but I doubt it's a surprise to anyone, including it's workers. We can make some long term sacrifices to slow the process, but to what end? How slow is slow enough?

There is no endgame. Nobody is thinking that far off into the future.

This is actually a problem in free countries. You do not have a cabal of elite on the throne who see themselves as the rulers forever. Consequently, long term planning is not as much of a concern. In this particular case the shareholders who pressured the CEO to move the labour overseas were only concerned with their short term gain. The politicians who might have endorsed it, were also thinking about their short term gain.

Nobody is thinking about the future until there is clear trouble on the horizon.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#104

Post by _m8fo »

randomdata wrote: post #96
_m8fo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "fact" that everyone starts with nothing is obviously false. Even ignoring opportunity, the fetal health is highly dependent on the environment.

Given that we're talking about wealth – something that you measure on a balance sheet – is fetal health something that should be included? My experience with accounting says no, but I'm not a professional accountant. Perhaps you have misunderstood this discussion?

If you don't think the health of the fetus, and subsequently the child and adult has anything to do with poverty then I dunno what I tell ya.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#105

Post by lambda »

bcatanzaro wrote: post #17

I don’t understand how this is possible. We have a lot of programs to help people - food assistance, housing and health care assistance, disability... Are these benefits being counted when we say they live on $4/day?

Most of these programs require you to be able to clear the bureaucratic hurdles to be eligible for them; welfare reform in the '90s made many welfare programs temporary or added work requirements to them (like TANF, which is "temporary assistance for needy families). This continues today, with the Trump administration allowing states to add a work requirement for Medicaid, which in many cases would then make people ineligible for Medicaid as they would earn too much to qualify, but too little to get Obamacare subsidies for private insurance.

If you don't have a permanent address, up to date ID, and a bank account, and a job, many of these programs may not be available to you.

But I believe these counts do not include welfare programs other than those that give you cash (like Social Security benefits including disability). Other programs offer services or restricted forms of payment, which cannot be used for saving, for purchasing other things you might need like gas or transportation, and so on.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#106

Post by Leader2light »

Retric wrote: post #46
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #32

This is the other side of globalization. Globalization is super nice when you're secure in your job, "hey everything is getting cheaper!" but when your job is the one in the crosshairs what you're feeling is a pressure that is pushing the living standard of the third world and yours together. That's why I find it so annoying that this board is usually against abundant H1B's but for factory outsourcing. It's completel…

I am for immigration, it's just the pseudo indentured servitude that is H1B that I have a problem with. As to factory outsourcing, I think it's overall a net gain for humanity. Long term there is a finite number of countries and barring societal collapse eventually they will all end up 'developed'. It simply exposes other problems in the US like our horrible social safety net and endemic corruption. So, a small ~2-5%…

What does it even mean any more to be "for immigration"!

At what point do you feel the USA will have enough immigrants? It's already a nation of immigrants!

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#107

Post by ThomPete »

It's not a poverty problem it's a cost of living problem. Those are two very different things (and becomes more and more severe the poorer you are)

You can't outsource your home to China.

Globalization does not make every day cheaper it just provides more choices and will in aggregate always increase the cost of living.

So as long as your job/income is on the right side of the rise of the cost of living you are fine but if you are on the other side with either no job or poorly paid job or as a freelancer (with no healthcare) then you are in trouble no matter how cheap flatscreen TV become.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#108

Post by gcb0 »

xya3453 wrote: post #99

> Beyond that, many Americans, especially whites with no more than a high school education, have seen worsening health: As my research with my wife, the Princeton economist Anne Case, has demonstrated, for this group life expectancy is falling; mortality rates from drugs, alcohol and suicide are rising Yet in 2018, most diversity initiatives still focus on race regardless of socio-economic background.

you wish. in california high paying companies and universities the talk is still gender.

when even rich white woman need a movement, and they do, you realize how behind schedule the US is.

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#109

Post by lsiebert »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #32

This is the other side of globalization. Globalization is super nice when you're secure in your job, "hey everything is getting cheaper!" but when your job is the one in the crosshairs what you're feeling is a pressure that is pushing the living standard of the third world and yours together. That's why I find it so annoying that this board is usually against abundant H1B's but for factory outsourcing. It's completel…

Is it really the result of globalization, or could it be the capture of gdp growth by the wealthy?

Thinking about it we tax productive work more then capital investment, and I'm not sure if that isn't ass backwards.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-effect-low...

Re: The U.S. Can No Longer Hide from Its Deep Poverty Problem

#110

Post by kevingadd »

xya3453 wrote: post #99

> Beyond that, many Americans, especially whites with no more than a high school education, have seen worsening health: As my research with my wife, the Princeton economist Anne Case, has demonstrated, for this group life expectancy is falling; mortality rates from drugs, alcohol and suicide are rising Yet in 2018, most diversity initiatives still focus on race regardless of socio-economic background.

Diversity is a completely different subject from poverty. They're both subjects worth addressing.

Poor black people in the deep south and poor white people in the deep south still live different experiences even if they're both having a hard time. Rich african americans get treated differently from rich white people. This isn't a contest. We need to fix everything.

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