Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#81

Post by rwallace » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 1:15 AM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #48

andrewstuart wrote: post #12

The question is, where IS the innovation? Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? Remember when Tim Cook was criticised for not constantly bringing out new product lines? Yo don't hear that any more - people seem to have forgotten about the idea that Apple might be a company that actually comes up with entirely new product categories. Indeed Apple hardly even releases updates to its computers a…

> Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? What on earth gave you the impression that big companies innovate? Small companies innovate. Big companies eat the small companies, absorbing their IP, or duplicating it. Or the small company survives and becomes the big company.

> What on earth gave you the impression that big companies innovate?

AT&T, General Electric, IBM, Xerox etc. The personal computer was invented by individuals and small companies, but the transistor was not, and probably could not have been. The loss of the idea that big companies need to innovate, may be one of the worst pieces of news in today's world for the survival of our species.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#82

Post by natbobc » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 1:30 AM UTC

kbutler wrote: post #37

JonnyNova wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies change as they get bigger because of increasing risk. The company has more value and making big gambles risky ventures with a large company starts to become irresponsible.

...like the irresponsibly risky gamble of not changing. (Innovator's Dilemma) But yes, in many ways it is less risky for a big company to try to acquire successful innovative small companies rather than trying to do the innovation in-house. But they criticized for that, too.

I think there's 2 primary motivations for acquisition;

1. purchase for innovation.

2. market control.

I think the latter is what people squawk about the most. Employees of the acquired will always find it uncomfortable. Small companies often have limited process where larger companies generally need it to function. That being said I don't think larger companies cull/assess the impact/efficiency of their processes on a regular basis.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#83

Post by acdha » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 2:20 AM UTC

ken wrote: post #40

andrewstuart wrote: post #12

The question is, where IS the innovation? Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? Remember when Tim Cook was criticised for not constantly bringing out new product lines? Yo don't hear that any more - people seem to have forgotten about the idea that Apple might be a company that actually comes up with entirely new product categories. Indeed Apple hardly even releases updates to its computers a…

I think the Google Maps analysis ("Google Maps's Moat"), a month ago, showed some pretty innovative work happening at Google! But more generally, I think this highlights a fundamental problem with how systems are built and sold. JWZ once described a "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers" model of software development, where you get bored with the old codebase and just throw it out, only to make just as many mistake…

I can’t think of anything which would improve the user experience more than Google, Apple, or Amazon doubling the size of their QA staff and giving them veto power over releases.

A couple weeks ago, I tried to report a problem to Amazon about Prime Photos. It took a couple dozen emails to get their customer service person to read for comprehension and as soon as they did they opened 6 internal bug reports for basic UX problems – 1 that I’d started with and 5 that I found while litigating that the first was a bug not covered in the online help.

Today, I noticed that Google is trying to push iOS users into using a “Smart Lock” app as a new wrinkle on their two-factor support, which seems reasonable until you install it and learn that the only thing it can do is pair with wireless tokens rather than the USB devices most people actually have. I would be shocked if a single person really tested that before they pushed it to production.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#84

Post by ocdtrekkie » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 2:53 AM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #23

skywhopper wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things exist, but are they successful?

I mean they literally just announced a new company that graduated their incubator.

The parent asked if they were successful. Google "graduating" them (I presume this includes... a party?) doesn't indicate success: They have no product and no revenue at this time. It is a drain on Google's ad revenue profits, and someone hopes it might someday be more.

Chronicle... exists. That's about all it has going for it right now.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#85

Post by ocdtrekkie » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 2:58 AM UTC

jmadler wrote: post #52

I'm not sure I agree with Steve that Google is 100% competitor focused. Yes, there are lots of fast-follows, but the fast-follows are innovative (such as Google Home), and the PM teams definitely focus more on user research than on competitive research. I mean, Google didn't exactly invent the Search Engine... I do however believe that it is increasingly difficult at Google to enter new markets as an individual contr…

What's innovative about Google Home? Every component of it, Home itself (Echo), the Home mini (Echo Tap), etc. are all clones of products that already existed. It doesn't do anything particularly better than it's competitors, and in many cases performs worse, including issues like embarrassingly incorrect answers, killing Wi-Fi networks, accidentally recording all voice even when it's not supposed to...

Google Home is the exact embodiment of a "me too" product. And it's not even a good one.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#86

Post by ocdtrekkie » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 3:02 AM UTC

RandyRanderson wrote: post #67

It's hard to understand his criticism of g+ as his post of quite a ramble. If g+ had APIs it would have been successful how? He makes several conjectures but either doesn't provide an argument or just a passing one. Also being a developer, he is qualified to comment on the business directions of some of the large companies in the world because ... Even in all my hubris, I would feel compelled to add several "just my…

Communities like social networks heavily depend on their celebrities/engagers to get people regularly participating. Google+'s own UI was easily overwhelmed by the dreaded "99+ notifications", and the lack of competent content management features. With APIs, these "big" users would have an easier time working with the network. Similarly, third party apps and tools are key in bringing multi-network entities into engaging on your network.

Note that Facebook massively profited from people integrating with their platform both internally and externally, bringing games in (Google did try this... poorly) and bringing Facebook right into their own websites.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#87

Post by tvalentius » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 3:46 AM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #12

The question is, where IS the innovation? Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? Remember when Tim Cook was criticised for not constantly bringing out new product lines? Yo don't hear that any more - people seem to have forgotten about the idea that Apple might be a company that actually comes up with entirely new product categories. Indeed Apple hardly even releases updates to its computers a…

Facebook did innovate, i am pretty bullish with their tech right know and hope they can keep their momentum

https://code.facebook.com/projects/

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#88

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 5:08 AM UTC

rwallace wrote: post #81

peterwwillis wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? What on earth gave you the impression that big companies innovate? Small companies innovate. Big companies eat the small companies, absorbing their IP, or duplicating it. Or the small company survives and becomes the big company.

> What on earth gave you the impression that big companies innovate? AT&T, General Electric, IBM, Xerox etc. The personal computer was invented by individuals and small companies, but the transistor was not, and probably could not have been. The loss of the idea that big companies need to innovate, may be one of the worst pieces of news in today's world for the survival of our species.

[deleted]

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#89

Post by bostik » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 5:17 AM UTC

GVIrish wrote: post #16

stuffedBelly wrote: post #5

> becoming "100% competitor-focused" and said the company "can no longer innovate." I understand that from a nowadays developer perspective, innovation is held in high regard and rightfully so. However, NO ONE can innovate constantly and forever. A competition race such as the cloud pricing Google vs. Amazon he mentioned is actually a good thing for customers from a economic standpoint. At some point, all companies h…

I think a key point Yegge made there is that Google is not paying attention to the customer. Instead, Google is maybe devoting too much focus to responding to the competition. Starting with uncovering and serving customer needs and desires is a great impetus for innovation. Following what the competition is doing and one-upping them is also a viable strategy but it also means you'll be one or more steps behind. Still…

> Following what the competition is doing and one-upping them is also a viable strategy but it also means you'll be one or more steps behind.

The problem with that strategy is that you're essentially allowing your competitors to dictate your roadmap - with products they have already shipped.

That can't be long-term sustainable.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#90

Post by otp124 » Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 9:29 AM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #3

Previous discussion is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16220666

I've been reading through those comments, and all the top comments are about Grab, not about Google. So while the previous discussion is relevant, I wouldn't call this a dupe per se.