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Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

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Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#71

The question is, where IS the innovation? Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? Remember when Tim Cook was criticised for not constantly bringing out new product lines? Yo don't hear that any more - people seem to have forgotten about the idea that Apple might be a company that actually comes up with entirely new product categories. Indeed Apple hardly even releases updates to its computers a…

Apple is rumored to be launching an AR product line in 2019. https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/8/16622802/apple-ar-headset...

I hope they have the killer app, everything I've seen so far is interesting but not that compelling but that's just my opinion.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#72

The question is, where IS the innovation? Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? Remember when Tim Cook was criticised for not constantly bringing out new product lines? Yo don't hear that any more - people seem to have forgotten about the idea that Apple might be a company that actually comes up with entirely new product categories. Indeed Apple hardly even releases updates to its computers a…

I guess we're just taking for granted that Google does something incredible on a weekly basis, to such a degree that we don't even notice any more. Here's some things that are basically magic that Google has quietly (or loudly, sometimes) launched:

Automatic real-time text translation from videos, on your phone. You point your phone at a sign in Thailand and it changes the words to English.

Computer vision systems that index the themes of your photographs. You can search your Google photos for "dog" and it finds all the photos with dogs.

A computer that beats all living humans at board games.

Cars that drive themselves. Not the ones that kill their drivers, like Tesla's, or that can't see stop lights, like Uber's, or that run into people all the time, like GM's. Actual self-driving cars that will pick your ass up and take you to Taco Bell.

An airborne internet service that can be deployed anywhere in the world on short notice.

And, under all of that, a service platform that remains fast, reliable, and economical to operate even after two decades of exponential user growth, which provides free services such as searching all documents ever written, delivering the majority of the world's email, etc, all free of charge.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#73
post #44

Hello. I noticed Steve is writing a book about his time at Google: I have a lot of good stories saved up that I’d love to share. Google corporate didn’t much care for my blogging, and even though they never outright forbade it, I received a lot of indirect pressure from various VPs. So eventually I stopped. Sad. But that’s not where my mind’s at today. Those stories will have to wait for my book. I can completely rel…

You only do it after you get FU money. This was true even for people like Ben Horowitz.

Put yourself first. If you do have a desire to share that stories, shatter then with some friends in private.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#74
post #44

Hello. I noticed Steve is writing a book about his time at Google: I have a lot of good stories saved up that I’d love to share. Google corporate didn’t much care for my blogging, and even though they never outright forbade it, I received a lot of indirect pressure from various VPs. So eventually I stopped. Sad. But that’s not where my mind’s at today. Those stories will have to wait for my book. I can completely rel…

That's what anonymous blogs are for. Pick a pseudonym and get going.

People figure out who's behind the blogs pretty quickly though, of it gains any traction.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#75
post #61
post #24

Why was he still there, after 13 years? He should have been able to retire ages ago, or if he wants to keep working, should have gone somewhere innovative half a decade ago.

Perhaps because he thought he was working on something interesting, and they kept giving him stock grant refreshes to keep him there?

From his blog post there's one sentence where it sounds like he was already gone the past few years, looking for greener pastures.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you'll say it's innovation, but in reality, probably 0.1% of the employees got to work on it. This is irrelevant. So long as the new innovative product succeeds and is allowed to cannibalize the existing products, the company stays on top, riding the new wave. Even Steve Jobs said he only worked on three disruptive innovative products: The Apple 2, the original Mac, and the iPhone, and those were spaced out by very l…

And you believe no one at Google is being allowed to work on disruptive innovation, not even 0.1% of employees? The point is, Apple, Google, FB, Amazon, Microsoft, et al are all trying to find the next big disruptive thing. They all invest billions in R&D, but they also have to run their main cash cow businesses. In every company, there's going to be politics, risk aversion, and symbiotic copying with competitors. Th…

And you believe no one at Google is being allowed to work on disruptive innovation, not even 0.1% of employees?

No. But I'm not so sure that Google knows how to get the new thing to successfully cannibalize the current product line.

And for the rank and file employees who aren't working in R&D or on super-secret disruptions, things will seem fairly pedestrian.

You are telling me this as if I disagreed with it? Why?

Yegge's claim that Google is 100% focused on competitors is a vast exaggeration.

From what you've written, it would seem that you think it's 99.9% true, so missing that 0.1% is a huge exaggeration.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#77
post #24

Why was he still there, after 13 years? He should have been able to retire ages ago, or if he wants to keep working, should have gone somewhere innovative half a decade ago.

Because - as he noted - Google is a fantastic place to work.

> Even after almost 20 years of operation, Google is still one of the very best places to work on Earth, just about any way you care to measure it.

And I'll echo it - Google is an amazing place to work. It's a company that puts very serious efforts into making its employees productive and trying to help them stay happy and healthy. It's got a quite amazing collection of very talented engineers. While I haven't worked at a huge number of companies, it's the best in this respect that I've ever seen.

(None of that means it's the best place for any given person - I know several people, including at least one of my former Ph.D. students and several former undergrads - who left because they wanted a more hard-charging startup environment. And I know others who took such a move, and returned. I don't think they regretted either decision. Everyone's mileage will vary.)

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#78
post #40

The question is, where IS the innovation? Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? Remember when Tim Cook was criticised for not constantly bringing out new product lines? Yo don't hear that any more - people seem to have forgotten about the idea that Apple might be a company that actually comes up with entirely new product categories. Indeed Apple hardly even releases updates to its computers a…

I think the Google Maps analysis ("Google Maps's Moat"), a month ago, showed some pretty innovative work happening at Google! But more generally, I think this highlights a fundamental problem with how systems are built and sold. JWZ once described a "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers" model of software development, where you get bored with the old codebase and just throw it out, only to make just as many mistake…

Conversely I just implemented Google OAuth, though all I did was use some of the Google Plus APIs, and it was very straight forward (one oddity though was entirely different domains for retrieving the access code (used for getting the access token) vs. retrieving the access token (used for making API requests)) [1].

Some of the APIs are superbly documented with a lot of obvious effort put into them. Google sheets sounds like it isn't. I think one major problem is that there is a unified interface and docsets for both the good APIs and the bad APIs - while there are starkly different teams maintaining them with different interests and motivations. APIs that make a ton of money for Google are naturally going to get more love, the reverse will likely be abandoned, inaccurate, etc.

The bottom line we have to remember as developers is that we use Google's API at their own discretion. Many popular used APIs are "FREE".

If you want to create a stable, long-term, software product, you need to think long and hard about incorporating third party APIs, no matter if it's provided by a large well-respected organization like Google, or the teenager down the street.

[1]: "https://accounts.google.com/o/oauth2/v2/auth", "https://www.googleapis.com/oauth2/v4/token",

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#79

The question is, where IS the innovation? Which big companies are doing an impressive job of innovating? Remember when Tim Cook was criticised for not constantly bringing out new product lines? Yo don't hear that any more - people seem to have forgotten about the idea that Apple might be a company that actually comes up with entirely new product categories. Indeed Apple hardly even releases updates to its computers a…

>The question is, where IS the innovation?

Get ready for a tidal wave of blockchain apps, most of which don't really need blockchain. But I'm sure some innovative new products will shake out of the cruft.

Re: Steve Yegge Quits, Saying Google Is 100% Competitor Focused

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you believe no one at Google is being allowed to work on disruptive innovation, not even 0.1% of employees? The point is, Apple, Google, FB, Amazon, Microsoft, et al are all trying to find the next big disruptive thing. They all invest billions in R&D, but they also have to run their main cash cow businesses. In every company, there's going to be politics, risk aversion, and symbiotic copying with competitors. Th…

And you believe no one at Google is being allowed to work on disruptive innovation, not even 0.1% of employees? No. But I'm not so sure that Google knows how to get the new thing to successfully cannibalize the current product line. And for the rank and file employees who aren't working in R&D or on super-secret disruptions, things will seem fairly pedestrian. You are telling me this as if I disagreed with it? Why? Y…

I don't think it's true, but in every company that is growing it's existing product lines YoY without burning them to the ground, it will asymptotically approach this.

Do I believe it? No. There are large numbers of people working on completely new, crazy ideas, and just like the startup community, 97% of them will fail utterly. The number of new machine learning oriented things has grown exponentially. But how much innovation do you need in order to prove you're company is innovating? Justin the last 2 years:

Google Photos, clearly innovative, bringing ConvNet's to everyone to reduce the pain of photo management.

Tensorflow, now the dominant platform for ML

Kubernetes, now the dominant platform for container management, and from experience of systems invented internally

SmartReply system (first launched on Inbox, now ending up in many Google products)

Tango, eventually rolled into ARCore

Neural Machine Translation launched on Google Translate

Loads of Google Maps stuff, mostly invisible to people, except for the keen eye (https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat/)

GCam in Pixel2. A ton of research and innovation is behind the low light and portrait segmentation in this

Waymo

Cloud TPUs

AutoML

WaveNet/Tacotron2

Instant Apps

Spanner

Those are just the small list of public ones. Yegge worked on internal dev infrastructure, I work on Gmail. Both are maintaining important needs. Someone has to do it. I'd say Google has the opposite problem than what Yegge posed, and that's not enough focus on excellence in maintaining what people are already using.

The thing is, if you want to work on disruptive stuff, with maximum risk taking, and no politics, you go found a small startup and get seed capital. And even then, a huge number of startups are merely clones of existing businesses. "Uber for X", "Slack for Y", "Blockchain for Z".

Innovation, disruption, and copying are a continuum, and all too often rants take an extremist position and try categorize things in one of the other.

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