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NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

theintercept.com

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Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#81

Post by dopamean »

equalunique wrote: post #70
iambateman wrote: post #50

I, as a taxpayer, pay the NSA to be effective in defending national interests, to act with integrity, and to submit themselves to the oversight of my representatives in Congress. I have no expectation that they will be honest or open with me. Being closed is integral to their work. However they damn well better submit to oversight and respect my constitutional rights as a citizen.

>However they damn well better submit to oversight James Clapper lied to the Senate intelligence committee about the existence of NSA bulk data collection. Infuriating.

I'm normally not in the business of defending government agencies but wasn't that interview done in an open forum? Perhaps he would have been more honest if the information wasn't going to be immediately reported on in the media.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#82

Post by Tepix »

pweissbrod wrote: post #9

> In response to questions from The Intercept on Tuesday, the NSA played down the alterations. Thomas Groves, a spokesperson for the agency, said: “It’s nothing more than a website update, that’s all it is.” ^^ Updating the wordage on the website was a task placed on the queue of a website administrator which was requested by the manager as a takeaway from an internal meeting reviewing core values. This explanation i…

I guess the spokesperson is already implementing the new policy by not being honest.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#83

Post by willstrafach »

pweissbrod wrote: post #40
criley2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a taxpayer, I find the entire idea that the NSA pretended to be for honesty and openness to be funny. What's next, the CIA is about hope and change? As a taxpayer I accept that the NSA is the SIGINT side of America's spyforce, while the CIA is more of the HUMINT side of our spyforce. The entire idea that the techie side of our spyforce claimed to care about "openness and honesty" is rather absurd and hilarious in…

Spycraft employed on innocent americans is where I start to have the problem. Maybe you're right that I'm being silly to hope this, but I aim to have more transparency on what level of surveillance I as an american citizen not (aware) subject of any investigation I can expect. Or in other words some clarity around my rights to privacy as an innocent tax-paying citizen. In many countries your right to privacy is legal…

Keep in mind, the concern does not apply if you are a US Person. It is not possible to query for your calls or traffic.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#84

Post by merpnderp »

dsjoerg wrote: post #54
volkk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of a catch 22 there, right? You expect integrity, but without honesty/openness, how do you hold them to it?

You elect representatives and executives who are given security clearances and the right to great transparency and openness. When or if those elected officials are found to have abused the public trust, you punish them, their associates and their successors at the ballot box and in the court of public opinion. It's not a great process but I don't see a better way for a democracy to have an internationally competitive…

James Clapper lies to senate intelligence committee and is outed only days later. On March 13th the statue of limitations runs out on prosecuting this crime.

This data is misused and no one is punished, even for the overtly blatant crimes.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#85

Post by tambienben »

drusepth wrote: post #65
vthallam wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd work in an ideal world, not here. In a 2 party system which are increasingly polarizing you'd have the pressure to stick to the party line.

Even in our current world, some issues' importance outweighs sticking to the party line. Luckily, we have more than two parties to vote for, so it's not quite as black and white as that.

>Luckily, we have more than two parties to vote for

Not to most americans--especially when it comes time to vote.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#86

Post by merpnderp »

dopamean wrote: post #81
equalunique wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However they damn well better submit to oversight James Clapper lied to the Senate intelligence committee about the existence of NSA bulk data collection. Infuriating.

I'm normally not in the business of defending government agencies but wasn't that interview done in an open forum? Perhaps he would have been more honest if the information wasn't going to be immediately reported on in the media.

He was testifying in front of Congress. Perjury is what he did. He later waffled about not being able to answer truthfully because of the surveillance being classified - yet he answered.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#87

Post by dfsegoat »

iambateman wrote: post #50

I, as a taxpayer, pay the NSA to be effective in defending national interests, to act with integrity, and to submit themselves to the oversight of my representatives in Congress. I have no expectation that they will be honest or open with me. Being closed is integral to their work. However they damn well better submit to oversight and respect my constitutional rights as a citizen.

If history is any judge, as I recall from several recent reads on NSA post-Snowden / Stuxnet etc: Even the most outspoken critic of the NSA (I want to say it was a State attorney or something) was quick to reverse his critiques when he was granted control of an oversight investigation - he was actually shocked at the amount of integrity and openness that he found WITHIN the organization. Doesn't mean it is visible to others.

I'll try to find the references.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#88

Post by chimen »

iambateman wrote: post #50

I, as a taxpayer, pay the NSA to be effective in defending national interests, to act with integrity, and to submit themselves to the oversight of my representatives in Congress. I have no expectation that they will be honest or open with me. Being closed is integral to their work. However they damn well better submit to oversight and respect my constitutional rights as a citizen.

How do you know they are acting with integrity without them being honest or open? It looks like a free ticket to do whatever they like and play the "trust us to be defending national interests" card whenever they see fit.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#89

Post by tambienben »

willstrafach wrote: post #83
pweissbrod wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spycraft employed on innocent americans is where I start to have the problem. Maybe you're right that I'm being silly to hope this, but I aim to have more transparency on what level of surveillance I as an american citizen not (aware) subject of any investigation I can expect. Or in other words some clarity around my rights to privacy as an innocent tax-paying citizen. In many countries your right to privacy is legal…

Keep in mind, the concern does not apply if you are a US Person. It is not possible to query for your calls or traffic.

You're going to have to qualify that claim.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#90

Post by [deleted] »

dfsegoat wrote: post #87
iambateman wrote: post #50

I, as a taxpayer, pay the NSA to be effective in defending national interests, to act with integrity, and to submit themselves to the oversight of my representatives in Congress. I have no expectation that they will be honest or open with me. Being closed is integral to their work. However they damn well better submit to oversight and respect my constitutional rights as a citizen.

If history is any judge, as I recall from several recent reads on NSA post-Snowden / Stuxnet etc: Even the most outspoken critic of the NSA (I want to say it was a State attorney or something) was quick to reverse his critiques when he was granted control of an oversight investigation - he was actually shocked at the amount of integrity and openness that he found WITHIN the organization. Doesn't mean it is visible to…

[deleted]
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