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NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

theintercept.com

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Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#31

Post by throwaway76025 »

brndnmtthws wrote: post #29
throwaway76025 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any objective source for your claims? If your basis is the attitude for such agencies here on hacker news, it’s understandable why you might believe those to be true, but they aren’t.

I've worked directly with people in the IC, and I have friends who've worked (or currently work) at various government agencies.

Did they convey those summaries to you? If so, is it accurate to say that shtf post-Snowden, and hasn’t recovered?

You could be right, so I take it back, but I’ve heard there is some degree of strife and paranoia, but not general chaos as may be perceived.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#32

Post by acct1771 »

throwaway76025 wrote: post #27
brndnmtthws wrote: post #24

Fortunately these government agencies are mostly corrupt, dysfunctional, and unable to recruit talent, so we probably don't have much to worry about.

Any objective source for your claims? If your basis is the attitude for such agencies here on hacker news, it’s understandable why you might believe those to be true, but they aren’t.

Thomas Drake, Edward Snowden, Wikileaks, etc

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#33

Post by krisives »

pwaivers wrote: post #25
krisives wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt you will find many such reporters in America remaining

There are lots of great reporters in the USA with integrity. I am sad to see this general sentiment that quality journalism is dead.

Any good names? A lot of them get a big hit then disappear or become complacent in “news journalism”

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#34

Post by brndnmtthws »

throwaway76025 wrote: post #31
brndnmtthws wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked directly with people in the IC, and I have friends who've worked (or currently work) at various government agencies.

Did they convey those summaries to you? If so, is it accurate to say that shtf post-Snowden, and hasn’t recovered? You could be right, so I take it back, but I’ve heard there is some degree of strife and paranoia, but not general chaos as may be perceived.

It's mostly anecdotes and personal experience. I think that data on salaries, etc, is mostly public too, so you can probably see for yourself that they aren't competitive with SV or Wall St.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#35

Post by criley2 »

pweissbrod wrote: post #9

> In response to questions from The Intercept on Tuesday, the NSA played down the alterations. Thomas Groves, a spokesperson for the agency, said: “It’s nothing more than a website update, that’s all it is.” ^^ Updating the wordage on the website was a task placed on the queue of a website administrator which was requested by the manager as a takeaway from an internal meeting reviewing core values. This explanation i…

As a taxpayer, I find the entire idea that the NSA pretended to be for honesty and openness to be funny.

What's next, the CIA is about hope and change?

As a taxpayer I accept that the NSA is the SIGINT side of America's spyforce, while the CIA is more of the HUMINT side of our spyforce.

The entire idea that the techie side of our spyforce claimed to care about "openness and honesty" is rather absurd and hilarious in the first place.

As a side note: the kind of journalism being requested here appears not to be the "hard hitting, fact filled, context-aware" news we should desire, but some kind of biased political hackjob attacking America's spies for engaging in the nature of spies?

Where are the journalists pointing out that spycraft, by definition, is dishonest and closed!

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#36

Post by jsjohnst »

Y_Y wrote: post #3

As if "core values" meant anything for colossal organisations.

Response I got from telling someone they were violating the core values “core values are what you strive to do, not necessarily what you are always doing”. I disagreed and still disagree, but it is maybe what more than just that one person thinks.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#37

Post by jsjohnst »

brndnmtthws wrote: post #24

Fortunately these government agencies are mostly corrupt, dysfunctional, and unable to recruit talent, so we probably don't have much to worry about.

> so we probably don't have much to worry about.

While you had me nodding my head until this point, I think your conclusion is ultimately wrong. We have lots to worry about because of those very reasons you list. When you can’t recruit good talent, you get at best partial incompetence, at worst bad actors. When things are dysfunctional, you don’t have proper checks and balances. When an organization is corrupt, very bad things tend to happen as nobody cares.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#38

Post by throwaway76025 »

brndnmtthws wrote: post #34
throwaway76025 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they convey those summaries to you? If so, is it accurate to say that shtf post-Snowden, and hasn’t recovered? You could be right, so I take it back, but I’ve heard there is some degree of strife and paranoia, but not general chaos as may be perceived.

It's mostly anecdotes and personal experience. I think that data on salaries, etc, is mostly public too, so you can probably see for yourself that they aren't competitive with SV or Wall St.

Discussed here recently, there’s a path from public to private sector that does serve the need to retain talent, to some degree.

Also, to say they are mostly corrupt or incompetent seems possibly too much of a broad stroke that is based on anecdotes. I don’t believe Snowden, for instance, ever suggested either of those are true — did he?

Finally, if this is your assessment, your standard may be unusually high. Maybe your peers, many not quite as good as you, are actually quite skilled? Just a hunch, could be wrong.

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#39

Post by Kalium »

pweissbrod wrote: post #9

> In response to questions from The Intercept on Tuesday, the NSA played down the alterations. Thomas Groves, a spokesperson for the agency, said: “It’s nothing more than a website update, that’s all it is.” ^^ Updating the wordage on the website was a task placed on the queue of a website administrator which was requested by the manager as a takeaway from an internal meeting reviewing core values. This explanation i…

How interesting would you find an article detailing all the ways a reporter was told "No comment."? What kind of more lucid explanation would you consider acceptable?

The NSA is, in many ways, a bureaucracy like many others. Odds are very good that the more lucid explanation is that some internal bureaucrat decided to convene a committee to review the Core Values, and after a multi-year review process the primary result was a minor website update.

Honestly, I'm bored just typing that. Do you think it would be interesting reading?

Re: NSA Deletes “Honesty” and “Openness” from Core Values

#40

Post by pweissbrod »

criley2 wrote: post #35
pweissbrod wrote: post #9

> In response to questions from The Intercept on Tuesday, the NSA played down the alterations. Thomas Groves, a spokesperson for the agency, said: “It’s nothing more than a website update, that’s all it is.” ^^ Updating the wordage on the website was a task placed on the queue of a website administrator which was requested by the manager as a takeaway from an internal meeting reviewing core values. This explanation i…

As a taxpayer, I find the entire idea that the NSA pretended to be for honesty and openness to be funny. What's next, the CIA is about hope and change? As a taxpayer I accept that the NSA is the SIGINT side of America's spyforce, while the CIA is more of the HUMINT side of our spyforce. The entire idea that the techie side of our spyforce claimed to care about "openness and honesty" is rather absurd and hilarious in…

Spycraft employed on innocent americans is where I start to have the problem.

Maybe you're right that I'm being silly to hope this, but I aim to have more transparency on what level of surveillance I as an american citizen not (aware) subject of any investigation I can expect. Or in other words some clarity around my rights to privacy as an innocent tax-paying citizen.

In many countries your right to privacy is legally stated in clear facts and law enforcement is required to notify you if you are the subject of an investigation and your privacy rights change.

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