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The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

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Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#261

Post by acconrad »

ydt wrote: post #204
seangrogg wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you very much for the insight! A few questions, if you would: * What are some recommendations you have for establishing a rate? Do you use hourly, weekly, or project? * What do you look for in a small business accountant (it sounds like you may have had a less-good one in the past)? * What avenues do you typically find yourself using for contract work? i.e. LinkedIn, job boards, word of mouth, etc?

* I use hourly mostly because it is common and is met with the least resistance. Either way, raise your rate at least a little after each gig. Don't get complacent, just keep ratcheting it up. * I've actually been blessed with a great accountant. He's saved me thousands over the years and sent letters to the IRS on my behalf clearing up a couple issues along the way. I would look for someone who specializes in small,…

> boutique consulting agencies can be great for sub-contract work

I just wanted to second this point. In this way, checks both boxes off: one for getting the advantage of an established network like a recruiting firm; two for getting you the higher rates and not needing a middleman

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#262

Post by Consultant32452 »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #254
Consultant32452 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so the first google result I found had an inflated number. I don't really get what point you're trying to get to. If you think I'm arguing Uber is a good/lucrative place to work, I'm not.

You do seem to be arguing that Uber drivers should have sufficient money to do a variety of things based on completely erroneous information about how much money they have.

Let's put some context on this. Disability insurance is $30/mo. And that amount is generally tax deductible for the self employed.

Yes, if you're poor it will be harder to buy health insurance, but you can avoid consumer debt at virtually any income. You can save up an emergency fund at virtually any income level. The fact that it might get more difficult to do any of these things as you get closer and closer to the lowest end of the poverty spectrum... is that really the argument we're trying to have? Because that seems like a silly thing to interject in a conversation about people who are going to be starting and running small businesses.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#263

Post by Consultant32452 »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #251
Consultant32452 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Person 1: Life is easier if you budget properly Person 2: But what if you're a diabetic blind one legged cancer patient?

Being a low income contract worker is not equivalent to being a diabetic blind one legged cancer patient. There are literally millions of them.

This discussion is not a comparison between a low income contract job and a job as a neurosurgeon. It's a comparison between a low income contract job and the type of "traditional" job that same worker might be qualified for.

Buying your own workman's comp is 0.0075% of your salary in my state ($0.75 per $100 in salary). Disability insurance is $30/mo for $50k salary, so if you're making $30k/yr then disability will be even less. You can make a budget, avoid consumer debt, and save an emergency fund at virtually any level of income. The median national income is $32k/yr for a single person. Sure, a lot of people making that kind of money also have bad personal finance habits. But the idea that it's impossible to live a decent life on the kind of income that half of all single people in the country are making is hyperbole.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#264

Post by dzink »

brudgers wrote: post #108

One aspect of the "gig economy" that I've not seen covered is the way it effects gigsters professional social graphs. At the deep end of Mechanical Turk services where work is dispatched by an algorithm (Uber/Lyft/AirBnB/etc.) there are no upward connections to supervisors and managers and officers and no lateral connections to coworkers. This means that working does not provide insider access to potentially better (…

Actually, there are large Uber/Lyft driver groups on Facebook and probably elsewhere (9000 members for Bay Area alone), where information on deals and threats spreads like wildfire. It is not formal, but there seems to be some social capital acquired by members helping each-other out. In that kind of environment, the connections don't get deep, but breadth can't be beat (especially if you contribute valuable stuff to the group).

What's more interesting is that the the available Gig Economy workforce has aggregated so well that Social Groups can become the new Unions, and mass actions can trigger swiftly. Uber is valued highly due to switching costs, but one can start a competitor and let most of the company's drivers know in a day.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#265

Post by chatmasta »

neogodless wrote: post #197
briffle wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would your situation change, if item number 2 was no longer there. (ie, your wife became a contractor) I think that is the largest concern/tipping point for most people..

I think the real tipping point is income level as an independent worker. Personally, I'm in software and got a 60% pay increase when I jumped to 1099. My wife didn't have health insurance offered before, and she still doesn't. But the $680/month I'm paying is easily covered by the increased income. (I was paying around $300/month even when my employer offered health insurance. And my coverage is actually much better…

Are you paying 680/mo for just yourself or both you and your wife? That seems like a really high number, but maybe that’s the privilege of youth talking...

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#266

Post by lotsofpulp »

gknoy wrote: post #47
zip1234 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't really explain how the American approach was absurd. Also, 7.5 hours seems extremely arbitrary. Why pick that number of hours? Why not 4 hours? Why not 9?

For non-salary workers, in your "8 hour" work day there is a certain mandated amount of break time. X minutes per Y hours, for example, plus time for lunch. They might have taken 8 hours and subtracted two 15-minute breaks. I'm not sure if the 8 hours is intended to be (8h + X break time), or (8h - X break time); I thought it was the former, but but might be mistaken. That's probably where the GP got their 7.5 from.

In the USA, there is no federal requirement for break time.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#267

Post by neogodless »

chatmasta wrote: post #265
neogodless wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real tipping point is income level as an independent worker. Personally, I'm in software and got a 60% pay increase when I jumped to 1099. My wife didn't have health insurance offered before, and she still doesn't. But the $680/month I'm paying is easily covered by the increased income. (I was paying around $300/month even when my employer offered health insurance. And my coverage is actually much better…

Are you paying 680/mo for just yourself or both you and your wife? That seems like a really high number, but maybe that’s the privilege of youth talking...

We are 38/33 and that's medical for both. Additional $57 for vision/dental (optional, of course). This is in PA. I was unsuccessful in using the marketplace, and in my county there's basically only one insurance provider any more. So I get quotes from them directly. On the bright side, it's good coverage. We could save $150/mo, but the deductibles go through the roof. Since we are child-bearing age (and my eyes are terrible), we prefer better coverage.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#268

Post by rectang »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #256
adamsea wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow we've gotten from there to a point where you're suggesting that a poor person who is somehow capable of starting their own small business is, by the very nature of being poor, fundamentally incapable of making a good decision regarding disability insurance options. I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that. I was suggesting, essentially, that poverty is a vicious cycle. That, to quote the movie Hell…

That's exactly what started this conversation. /u/rectang made the following statement: >It's also expensive, inconvenient, time-consuming, and risky to be poor. None of the suggestions you make are "easy" for poor people. >Consider how much time, energy, and expertise it takes even to research disability insurance and buy the appropriate product. This whole thing is about me calling out rectang for suggesting that p…

Me: "People don't run fast on broken legs."

You: "The soft bigotry of low expectations..."

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#269

Post by TheCoelacanth »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #263
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a low income contract worker is not equivalent to being a diabetic blind one legged cancer patient. There are literally millions of them.

This discussion is not a comparison between a low income contract job and a job as a neurosurgeon. It's a comparison between a low income contract job and the type of "traditional" job that same worker might be qualified for. Buying your own workman's comp is 0.0075% of your salary in my state ($0.75 per $100 in salary). Disability insurance is $30/mo for $50k salary, so if you're making $30k/yr then disability will…

Your numbers seem unrealistically low for the types of jobs that low income contract workers usually have. For a job like software development where very few types of injuries are likely to occur on the job and where very few types of injuries would prevent you from performing the job the rates are low. For a higher risk job, like driving the rates will be higher. For instance, in Florida a driver's worker's comp will cost almost ten times the number you stated[1].

[1] https://www.floridawc.com/workerscompensation/policy/rates/

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#270

Post by pathseeker »

chc wrote: post #71
pathseeker wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's historically the way it has been but it's absurd in general. Would you argue the same thing about housing, food, and water (they should all be provided by the employer)? Really what we need is an expectation of being able to buy healthcare on our own with regular incomes.

This is one of those solutions that seems simple and neat, but falls apart on a cursory inspection. For example, it implies that the poor should die of curable illnesses. It also largely ignores the economics of the situation — healthcare is inherently expensive because it involves high technology, high safety standards and lots of training. You can't have it be like food, where people just get it when they want it,…

The comparison is to employers providing the healthcare! Poor people aren't getting healthcare from their employer.
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