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Ursula Le Guin has died

nytimes.com

121–130 of 197 posts

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She also warns how socialism can be easily turned into the power of the few. See The Dispossessed .

No, she warns about the creation of hierarchies even in a purely anarchist society.

Hierarchies are necessary for complex systems to function. The way that it is used as a boogeyword by ideologues is exhausting.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#122
post #102

I first read “The Dispossessed” in a hospital delivery room while waiting for my first child to be born. The way Le Guin paints an entire life’s dreams and hopes and their external bounds left an indelible impression. There is a birth scene in the book that I remember with as much emotion as the actual birth the same night. On a more general level, “The Dispossessed” is a good example of the paradigm shift that Le Gu…

I started "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" last week. I closed it after two or three pages because I couldn't stand the computer speak.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#123
post #115
post #102

I first read “The Dispossessed” in a hospital delivery room while waiting for my first child to be born. The way Le Guin paints an entire life’s dreams and hopes and their external bounds left an indelible impression. There is a birth scene in the book that I remember with as much emotion as the actual birth the same night. On a more general level, “The Dispossessed” is a good example of the paradigm shift that Le Gu…

> they get mistreated by the system as often as they get lifted up by it. In the end she makes the explicit point that this is just one possible way of organizing human societies among a nearly infinite set of possibilities Well, the book is subtitled "An Ambiguous Utopia"

Interesting — I don’t think my copy had that.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#124
“A child free from the guilt of ownership and the burden of economic competition will grow up with the will to do what needs doing and the capacity for joy in doing it. It is useless work that darkens the heart. The delight of the nursing mother, of the scholar, of the successful hunter, of the good cook, of the skillful maker, of anyone doing needed work and doing it well – this durable joy is perhaps the deepest source of human affection and of sociability as a whole.” -- The Dispossessed

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#125
I read Earthsea as a ten-year-old, and I loved it. Then I re-read it as a thirty-year-old... and I loved it, though I understood it far better. Ursula Le Guin was one of the true greats, and the world will be worse off without her.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#126
> [...], I really don’t want to watch American literature get sold down the river.

When I read that, I thought of Amazon (book selling river) but wasn't sure if 'sold down the river' was some idiom. Searching for it brought me to:

> journalist Lee Sandlin said "the threat of being 'sold down the river' was seen as tantamount to a death sentence." [1]

What an impressive choice of words!

[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/01/27/265421504...

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#127
post #70
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a short story called "The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas"

Salem O backwards

"People ask me 'Where do you get your ideas from, Ms. Le Guin?' From forgetting Dostoyevsky and reading road signs backwards, naturally. Where else?"

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#128
post #115
post #102

I first read “The Dispossessed” in a hospital delivery room while waiting for my first child to be born. The way Le Guin paints an entire life’s dreams and hopes and their external bounds left an indelible impression. There is a birth scene in the book that I remember with as much emotion as the actual birth the same night. On a more general level, “The Dispossessed” is a good example of the paradigm shift that Le Gu…

> they get mistreated by the system as often as they get lifted up by it. In the end she makes the explicit point that this is just one possible way of organizing human societies among a nearly infinite set of possibilities Well, the book is subtitled "An Ambiguous Utopia"

Which is fitting, given that Thomas More's original Utopia (as in the novel of that name) was also very much ambiguous (e.g. a lot of the features of More's utopia were things very much at odds with his rather pious catholic personal views).

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ursula Le Guin was an ardent socialist and it comes through in all her writing. I don't understand why the only comments and quotes about her politics are all downvoted in this thread. But I guess that's the average Hackernews reader for you... EDIT: the quote is from a speech, which you can hear/see in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et9Nf-rsALk

She also warns how socialism can be easily turned into the power of the few. See The Dispossessed .

Any system can be easily turned into the power of the few. Socialists have warned about that pretty much from the start. Marx warned against reactionary and outright feudal forms of socialism in the Communist Manifesto in 1848, and the argument over the dangers of authority split the First International as early as 1872 when the anarchists around Bakunin thought Marx too was too authoritarian for their liking. Later you had people like Rosa Luxembourg sharply criticizing the Bolsheviks, and the many thousands of Russian socialists and communists that laid down their lives to fight the Bolsheviks even before it became clear just how authoritarian they were to become.

The authority vs. anarchy axis is largely separate from the economic system - a number of socialist ideologies have as their explicit goal the destruction of hierarchy and government, and a further number of left libertarian ideologies share right libertarian goals in terms of minimizing the power of government, and others want to use state power to bring about redistribution or fail by bringing in systems that makes abuse too easy (e.g. Leninist party theory is pretty much begging for power hungry people to abuse it), just as you have anything from absolutist monarchists and fascists to right libertarians on the right wing.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#130
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the whole point of the novel is that neither system really works very well! I think you're doing it a disservice to characterize it in that way. She did her best to imagine a communist system that was nearly ideally designed and it still fails in so many ways.

> She did her best to imagine a communist system that was nearly ideally designed and it still fails in so many ways. It wasn't a communist system, but an anarchist one. And it didn't fail in so many ways, it's just that life in Anarres was tough. A barren moon with few natural resources. They even had bad harvests and people starved to death.

A communist system is an anarchist one. The main split between communists and anarchists is over the means of getting there, not over the end-goal; Bakunin and Marx split the First International over differences over how to use or destroy the state, not over the society they wanted in the end.
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