Anyone interested in the evolutionary basis of psychiatric conditions would do well to read Robert Trivers, an evolutionary psychologist.
Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
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Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#92Tangential, but this psychologist argues that depression evolved as a behavioral shutdown mechanism to prevent humans from over-investing in tactics or behaviors that did not yield any benefit (from a dopaminergic standpoint) -- https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/theory-knowledge/201604... . The reasoning is that we conserve energy by not pursuing "dead-ends". Naturally, this evolutionary mechanism is thrown for a…
I think it's too reductionist to assume that evolutionary drives are "solved" because survival is assured. Reproduction with an (genetically/physically/socially) fit partner and strong prospects for your children aren't solved at all, because they're an arms race.
These also relate to the things that tend to make teenagers/young adults depressed.
Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand that, just as I understand that there is value in religion, but that doesn't make it science. Yet evolutionary psychology poses as science. All of evolutionary psychology is "can we come up with an interesting interpretation to present quality X as adaptive?" Interesting, maybe, but not science.
>not science. That's a brave position. I think it's not exactly Freudian dream theory. Though the 'just-so stories' characterisation can be fair... Saying that, behavioural biology is without question a scientific endeavour, with obvious connections to both evolution and human psychology - is that well-grounded evo psych or is evo psych poorly-grounded behavioural biology?
It's not Freudian dream theory (which the virtually most psychologists happily agree is not science), but it's not experimental psychology, either. Unlike dream theory, though, it still claims to be science. I agree that the question is a scientific question, but there is a difference between a scientific question and a scientific endeavour. If we don't have the science to answer a scientific question (e.g. about multiple universes) we call our thought experiments and hypotheses pure speculation; we don't try to present them as carrying any sort of scientific validity.
Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is not at all what I meant. What I meant was that there is no reason whatsoever to presuppose that every existing phenotypical quality is adaptive.
Populations trend towards the reduced expression of phenotypes which are maladaptive. I don't think it is then unreasonable to presuppose (as a starting point for further investigation) that commonly expressed phenotypes might represent beneficial adaptation, especially when to our intuition the opposite would be true.
Saying that something is not maladaptive and saying its adaptive are two very different things.
Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are two general sources of depression: environmental and biochemical. This is not at all what the field of psychology has identified as the "general sources"
The fact that conditions such as sleep apnea (insufficient nocturnal brain oxygenation) lead to depression and anxiety in a significant number of cases illustrates that depression isn't always an indicative of a social problem. It can also be a strictly biochemical issue (there are a lot of things that affect neurotransmitter efficiency for instance). (edited)
My point was, depression can come from a variety of sources; not just environmental or biochemical. Saying it's generally those two sources glazes over all the others - and is not representative.
Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#96I'm afraid that the reason to human suicide is simply, in most cases, to put an end to the pain these human feel.
The brain is an extreamly complex "organ" with many many different potential points of failure. Attempts to find a reason for abnormal behaviors by such type of guessing (finding an evolutionary reason) looks to me like our ancestors did when attributing to gods will unexpected natural events.
It's not impossible that depressive behavior is a natural brain protective measure (thinking of burnout here), but this reasonning really looks like guessing and as truth seeker, we shouldn't accept the risk to be wrong on this.
Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are two general sources of depression: environmental and biochemical. This is not at all what the field of psychology has identified as the "general sources"
So enlighten me. What does psychology have to say about it?
Far more than would be appropriate for a hacker news comment ;)
I will share that it is both more complex than many believe - and also less mysterious. "it's chemical" gets overplayed, while our relationship with our emotions is often left unexamined. There's a great deal of interconnectedness and sometimes cause & effect become confused or are tightly coupled. In the end, we're still learning, and everyone is different.
Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can vouch for this. Money is not sufficient, and it might not be strictly necessary, but it's a huge lever.
There was a study in Sweden where people got a small amount of money (500skr, about $60) per month instead of a prescription of anti-depressants. Turns out the people who got the money were happier. Link: https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/studie-psykisk-ohalsa-blir... (only in Swedish, sorry!)
Did the study investigated the effect on a long run ?
Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#99Does anything have an evolutionary "purpose"? I mean really. Why, really, is the human tailbone less "purposeful" than our hair?
Not having a tailbone has probably not been an evolutionary advantage. Hair is an evolutionary advantage, not a big one but bald women don't mate as successfully as women with nice hair do, on average
Anecdotally speaking, it matters for guys, too.
Re: Does Depression Have an Evolutionary Purpose? (2017)
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was a study in Sweden where people got a small amount of money (500skr, about $60) per month instead of a prescription of anti-depressants. Turns out the people who got the money were happier. Link: https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/studie-psykisk-ohalsa-blir... (only in Swedish, sorry!)
Did the study investigated the effect on a long run ?
The study followed the people who took part in it for nine months and did a follow-up survey six months after the end of the experiment. However, the follow-up results were only obtained when the report was already finished.
Here is the complete report (in Swedish): http://ltblekinge.se/globalassets/forskning-och-utveckling/b...
They mention a smiliar study from the US, but here money was only one out of multiple factors:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229888823_Supported...