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Ursula Le Guin has died

nytimes.com

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Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#51

Post by sampo »

stcredzero wrote: post #43
newen wrote: post #22

RIP. The Dispossessed is one of my favorite books.

I enjoyed reading The Dispossessed , though I have also been known to characterize it as, "A Sci-Fi universe where communism actually works, hence the 'Fi' part." However, I've recently read Thomas Sowell's book about the original formulation of Marxian economics and philosophy, and I've come to the conclusion that the technology of the late 21st century might possibly enable a viable communal society through the rep…

> A Sci-Fi universe where communism actually works

What about Star Trek?

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#52

Post by DrTung »

macrael wrote: post #9

I am not trying to say that I was happy, during those weeks of hauling a sledge across an ice-sheet in the dead of winter. I was hungry, overstrained, and often anxious, and it all got worse the longer it went on. I certainly wasn't happy. Happiness has to do with reason, and only reason earns it. What I was given was the thing you can't earn, and can't keep, and often don't even recognize at the time; I mean joy. —T…

More than 40 years has passed since I read it, but I still remember that last part of the book, where he goes skiing down to the waiting guards. You know when you read the last sentence that it was the last sentence of the book, no need to turn another page.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#53

Post by stcredzero »

autarch wrote: post #49
stcredzero wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed reading The Dispossessed , though I have also been known to characterize it as, "A Sci-Fi universe where communism actually works, hence the 'Fi' part." However, I've recently read Thomas Sowell's book about the original formulation of Marxian economics and philosophy, and I've come to the conclusion that the technology of the late 21st century might possibly enable a viable communal society through the rep…

But the whole point of the novel is that neither system really works very well! I think you're doing it a disservice to characterize it in that way. She did her best to imagine a communist system that was nearly ideally designed and it still fails in so many ways.

But the whole point of the novel is that neither system really works very well! I think you're doing it a disservice to characterize it in that way.

Given the tremendous increase in the standard of living of so many people, Capitalism does a pretty darn good job. I think in that by grouping it in a pair where "neither system really works very well," you and LeGuin would be "doing it a disservice to characterize it in that way."

One major weakness of Capitalism, due in part to Pareto, is the perception of relative disparity. Psychological research indicates that such perception is a basic reality of the human condition. We should regard the bitterness of have-nots as real, even if the have-nots are fabulously well off in a global and historical sense. Any system which is forward thinking should take that into account, or fail to do so at its own peril. (One of Basic Income's biggest problems is that it does nothing to alleviate the problems relative disparity, so plants the seeds for its own political instability.)

She did her best to imagine a communist system that was nearly ideally designed and it still fails in so many ways.

Any system which isn't perfect is going to fail in innumerable ways, in that countless instances of terrible tragedy and injustice will exist within it, and no system is going to be perfect.

Re: Your user name: I once came up with an acronym for a sensor-network Internet thing. BACON: Basic Autarchic Communication/Observation Network.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#54

Post by sampo »

autarch wrote: post #49
stcredzero wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed reading The Dispossessed , though I have also been known to characterize it as, "A Sci-Fi universe where communism actually works, hence the 'Fi' part." However, I've recently read Thomas Sowell's book about the original formulation of Marxian economics and philosophy, and I've come to the conclusion that the technology of the late 21st century might possibly enable a viable communal society through the rep…

But the whole point of the novel is that neither system really works very well! I think you're doing it a disservice to characterize it in that way. She did her best to imagine a communist system that was nearly ideally designed and it still fails in so many ways.

> neither system

People often miss it, but the planet Urras has many countries and actually two superpowers: A-Io (conservative capitalist parliamentary democracy) but also Thu (a totalitarian socialist regime). A very cold war like setting.

A-Io allowed the Odonian rebels (anarchists) to exile to the moon, but their counterparts in Thu we never hear much about. Possibly their fate was more gruesome.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#55

Post by stcredzero »

sampo wrote: post #51
stcredzero wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed reading The Dispossessed , though I have also been known to characterize it as, "A Sci-Fi universe where communism actually works, hence the 'Fi' part." However, I've recently read Thomas Sowell's book about the original formulation of Marxian economics and philosophy, and I've come to the conclusion that the technology of the late 21st century might possibly enable a viable communal society through the rep…

> A Sci-Fi universe where communism actually works What about Star Trek?

In the case of Star Trek, there were many more items of Fi. Then you have Star Wars which really doesn't give a ####.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#56

Post by krapp »

stcredzero wrote: post #55
sampo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A Sci-Fi universe where communism actually works What about Star Trek?

In the case of Star Trek, there were many more items of Fi. Then you have Star Wars which really doesn't give a ####.

>Then you have Star Wars which really doesn't give a ####.

Star Trek just pretends to, though. Most of its fictional conceits are barely thought out, including its post-scarcity communist utopia.

Does the Force really make any less sense than Q? It's all space fantasy.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#57

Post by pasquinelli »

nickbauman wrote: post #28
newen wrote: post #22

RIP. The Dispossessed is one of my favorite books.

There are few books that have a single sentence or two that change you utterly. The Dispossessed has that for me.

me too. when talking about the prison odo was held in, she describes it as sitting there as if to say, "i've been here for a long time, and i'm still here."

when i read that first i had to put the book away and walk around a minute.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#58

Post by pmoriarty »

One of the things this NYT obituary does not mention is the influence of Jungian psychology on Le Guin. In the Wizard of Earthsea, for instance, the protagonist is figuratively and literally searching for his own shadow.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#59

Post by stcredzero »

sampo wrote: post #54
autarch wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the whole point of the novel is that neither system really works very well! I think you're doing it a disservice to characterize it in that way. She did her best to imagine a communist system that was nearly ideally designed and it still fails in so many ways.

> neither system People often miss it, but the planet Urras has many countries and actually two superpowers: A-Io (conservative capitalist parliamentary democracy) but also Thu (a totalitarian socialist regime). A very cold war like setting. A-Io allowed the Odonian rebels (anarchists) to exile to the moon, but their counterparts in Thu we never hear much about. Possibly their fate was more gruesome.

There should be a sequel where there is a Project where A-Io gives rise to a successor society A-Jo, which doesn't work out, but then gives rise to another successor using the same iterative naming scheme. Then that successor should then switch to a successor naming scheme advancing only the 1st letter, and the whole story series should be directed by Katsuhiko Nishijima.

Re: Ursula Le Guin has died

#60

Post by KingMob »

stcredzero wrote: post #40
macrael wrote: post #9

I am not trying to say that I was happy, during those weeks of hauling a sledge across an ice-sheet in the dead of winter. I was hungry, overstrained, and often anxious, and it all got worse the longer it went on. I certainly wasn't happy. Happiness has to do with reason, and only reason earns it. What I was given was the thing you can't earn, and can't keep, and often don't even recognize at the time; I mean joy. —T…

If you like Sci-Fi that likes to speculate on the nature of sex and gender, also check out Octavia E. Butler's Xenogenesis saga.

Butler's books made my skin crawl in the best possible way. I can't think of another author in SF who so thoroughly conveyed the feeling of rape to a man who'd never experienced it.

Her books were potent brews of control, acceptance, family, and love. I keep hoping Kindred will be made into a mini-series one day.

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