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Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

nextrends.swissnexsanfrancisco.org

81–90 of 197 posts

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#81
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your growth strategy. If you're prepared to start lean and can demonstrate early signs of revenue then I'd imagine you'd find banks willing to cut a business loan.

You can't build a product company like this. Products require lots of development before any revenue arrives. Underdeveloped capital markets (VCs, stock exchanges etc.) is why Europe's software industry is mostly services. The difference between SV and anywhere else is access to risk-tolerant money. SV is not primarily an IT cluster, it's a VC cluster.

> "You can't build a product company like this."

Sure you can, you just bootstrap through monetising the ground work. For example, if you want a product company you can start out as a freelance design agency. The bulk of the initial design work will be for clients, but you can be involved with low volume manufacturing on the side. As the company grows, not only do you have the funds to take on progressively more ambitious product manufacturing projects, you've also built up a team of designers that can help push these projects forward. You're going to need designers right? Why not get them making you money from day one.

To give an alternative example, let's say you want to manufacture mobile phones. A good way to start small would be to manufacture accessories for existing phones. This is within the grasp of anyone within the Western world, given enough drive to do it. The revenue and knowledge you can gain doing so allows for increasingly sophisticated accessories to be built until the point where you have your own manufacturing premises (or have access to one at low rates, due to the volume of products you're pushing). The step from this point to manufacturing mobile phones is not that great.

Does this require more patience than burning through VC money? Sure, but it's also lower risk. Building a company gradually from the ground up means you get a better sense of what it takes to run a successful business (or in other words, experience is the best teacher).

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#82
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but if nobody in your country wants to conquer the world then the others will never reap the benefits of someone having conquered a piece of it.

No, but they'll reap the benefits of being decent people.

I don't follow. So if your company "conquers" the world, everyone associated with it is an "indecent" person?

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#83
post #47

I worked for a major biotech company in Silicon Valley that was part-owned, then later fully-owned, by a large Swiss pharmaceutical company. Well, it wasn't really a pharma company so many as a collection of wealthy Swiss families that maintained cross-investments in each other's pharma companies because it was a profitable sector. But I digress. Anyway, every year, the Swiss would send their top IT people to come lo…

> "At Roche, we only hire Swiss citizens to administer the SAP servers."

Ex-Genentecher here too, and that quote really surprises me. Maybe it got that way later, but when I went to Basel in '95 to do some work I found a very international team. Granted, there were probably more Swiss among the IT guys than the Pharma people but it was by no means all-Swiss.

The office language was English but the techies spoke a lot of German (and occasionally Swiss German) among themselves. My impression was not speaking German would be a disadvantage for IT, but I definitely did not feel like anybody was discriminating against the non-Swiss. (I speak German but not Swiss German.)

I wonder if it changed that much, or if you just met some difficult people.

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#84
post #29

> Assigned laundry days are commonplace...My laundry would be done on Friday night at 6. This seems efficient but also very off-putting.

Usually Swiss people find a way around this limitation. Swap laundry time slots with neighbours, for example.

I don't understand why would there be a time slot in the first place... do people not own their own laundry machines in Switzerland?

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#85

Zürich > Silicon Valley or San Francisco (esp. if you have a family) Zürich is a great place to work, live, and relax. The people here are also stupendously awesome.

How easily can a US citizen find work there?

You can get a work visa if a Swiss company wants to hire you for a special skill or expertise you have. The easier way is probably to start working for a Swiss company in the US and then let you relocate to Switzerland still working for that company.

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be in SF and in South Bay. Recently moved to Seattle , closely associated to the India and Swiss tech ecosystem. In my experience further away you are from SF, less cutting edge you are. In my experience even South Bay is 6 months behind SF. SF is a big melting pot, where a huge amount of talent are trying out new things and they are open to sharing their experiences - be it about latest technologies or lat…

I don't read the bit about the South Bay but that's absurd. gRPC - Mountain View Cgroups - Mountain View Golang, Rust - Mountain View Protobufs - Mountain View Blaze - Mountain View React - Menlo Park Buck - Menlo Park Thrift - Menlo Park And this is only a fraction of it. Do you even work in tech? You sound like a talking head...

Nobody who works on Rust is in Mountain View. There was one person once, for a while.

There are even only a few people in the SF/Oakland area at this point. Most are from outside of California.

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#87
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is satire, right? You're suggesting that ideas don't make it from SF to mountain view in less than 6 months with thousands of people commuting between the two each day and cross pollination of meetups on both sides. Containerization and its orchestration all started in the south bay. Pray tell, what was in use in SF for 6 months before it hit the startups based in MV, Sunnyvale, Palo Alto, etc.

No, this isn't satire. Please check my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16218591 There are always exceptions (like your containerization example), which can be attributed to serious tech players like Yahoo, Google and FB in South Bay. However holistically, SF has had much more unicorns and near unicorns. The contrast between SF and rest of the world has been more pronounced in recent year vs pre-20…

You seem to be conflating valuation with innovation.

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#88
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually Swiss people find a way around this limitation. Swap laundry time slots with neighbours, for example.

I don't understand why would there be a time slot in the first place... do people not own their own laundry machines in Switzerland?

People who own houses and apartments usually do but rented places often have shared laundries. In newer buildings every apartment has its own laundry.

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zurich pay can eclipse Valley pay. I have friends who went to ETH for grad school and were getting close to 100k CHF a year. This is grad school -- the pay goes up from there.

Do not forget that the taxes are way different and should be accounted for in a comparison.

I lived in Switzerland, paid 12% taxes and 5% for AHV (public pension fund, you don't get this money back), lived in a 100sqm (1000sqf) flat for 1800 chf a month, 25 min to zurich by train but only a 15min bike ride to work, ~110k salary

Re: Forging a Swiss Lens: How Zurich's tech scene changed my view of SV

#90
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you build an AirBnb like solution limited to Switzerland market. AirBnb will eventually come and eat your lunch. In today's globalized world - if you are not one of the bigger players and do not have moat (govt contract, some other kind of exclusivity) - other bigger players will come after you.

You say that, but there are cases even in small countries where this didn't happen. Like trademe in New Zealand which was just like ebay. Ebay still hasn't become the major place to do auctions in new zealand.

On the other hand, Trademe has never managed to penetrate markets outside New Zealand with any of its products, which limits its value.

Xero, however, has massive potential for growth, because it's international.

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