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Ending Bitcoin Support

stripe.com

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Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#201

Post by noir_lord »

nxsynonym wrote: post #163
paulddraper wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay....livestock bludgeoning explains 0.001% of gold's value.

It's a ridiculous example, of course. But it's something. Not to mention the actual real applications that were mentioned above. The point is - crypto-currencies are fairy dust. There is nothing real or tangible about them.

> The point is - crypto-currencies are fairy dust. There is nothing real or tangible about them.

Most money in circulation is 0/1's on hard drives.

I'm bearish on cryptocurrencies because frankly the entire thing is hilarious but modern currencies aren't entirely dissimilar.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#202

Post by detaro »

prostoalex wrote: post #70
nvk wrote: post #8

They should have replaced it with Lightning Network, is amazingly fast and cheap and works on top of Bitcoin. I'm running a test node, this stuff really works! > Lightning is a decentralized network using smart contract functionality in the blockchain to enable instant payments across a network of participants. In case you are curious https://lightning.network and another good resource here https://www.reddit.com/r/B…

Sounds like a great startup opportunity to capitalize on a market underserved by Stripe.

I'd guess a large part of the value of Stripe being in that market was "We're Stripe, we are a serious payment company, even if this stuff is a bit weird you can trust us to handle it" vs "hi, we are a BLOCKCHAIN startup nobody has ever heard of, trust us plz". That's hard to provide.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#203

Post by egeozcan »

masklinn wrote: post #184
emodendroket wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, people could also stop thinking gold is worth much. Maybe a modern-day alchemist finally figures out the formula. I don't know. Probably far less likely than the Bitcoin scenarios though.

> To be fair, people could also stop thinking gold is worth much. They've already noted that: > people's perception of its value will change But as they say, a gold bar will remain a gold bar, until and unless it is actively destroyed. Not so for bitcoins, which only remain so as long as they're actively maintained (not just individual coins but the mining networks which allows the creation of new transactions)

How do you think the story would end for gold, if it became unpopular and the exchanges closed? You can sell your gold bar, and you can sell your private key. I see them as the same and no, I don't own Bitcoins.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#204

Post by EpicEng »

serg_chernata wrote: post #90
0xcafecafe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

While true, a gold bar to me has no inherent use. I am not going to smelt it and make jewelry. It is simply a store of value. I think the gold comparison is quite close.

But you're not the only person in the world, so I don't see how this is an accurate portrayal at all. To _you_ it's a value store. To electronics companies it's a consumable used in manufacturing. Same to a jeweler, and to a jewelry consumer it's desired.

Crypto has exactly zero real world utility or inherent value. You, Joe Schmoe, do not by yourself and your own desires dictate what does and does not have inherent value.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#205

Post by EnFinlay »

emodendroket wrote: post #179
Goladus wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of assets have value without people buying things with them. Gold, houses, stocks, etc. That value is predicated on the notion that they're worth something to the holder apart from their market price. Gold can be used for jewelry and electronics manufacturing. In that sense it is a natural resource. Stocks are shares in a company that runs a business or multiple businesses that could be profitable. Companies h…

Besides that, there's a certain shifting of the goalposts going on when people who used to talk about Bitcoin replacing all the world's currencies instead start talking about the rising value of Bitcoin.

My bet is that they're different people motivated by different things.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#206

Post by ezekg »

brndnmtthws wrote: post #26
glesperance wrote: post #3

Given that bitcoin isn't a medium of transaction anymore and a store of value this makes a lot of sense. Too bad they aren't replacing this with another cryptocurrency at the moment.

Last I checked Bitcoin still works fine for transactions.

No it doesn't. Last time I moved Bitcoin, it cost me $19 and took 8 hours to confirm once. It's completely useless for transactions.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#207

Post by aaroninsf »

serg_chernata wrote: post #90
0xcafecafe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

While true, a gold bar to me has no inherent use. I am not going to smelt it and make jewelry. It is simply a store of value. I think the gold comparison is quite close.

* except for the bitrot problem

I agree with the observation that the difference is that gold is that which doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. Bitcoin does.

There is a difference between simulated gold, and actual gold, that is. At least, under current conditions.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#208

Post by moduspol »

Goladus wrote: post #170
moduspol wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What future does an asset have if people don't actually buy stuff with it? Lots of assets have value without people buying things with them. Gold, houses, stocks, etc. The more interesting question is how long Bitcoin will remain top dog merely as a store of value if other cryptocurrencies solve this on-chain / off-chain scaling problem better / faster. There's definitely some amount of value in the name alone, and…

> Lots of assets have value without people buying things with them. Gold, houses, stocks, etc. That value is predicated on the notion that they're worth something to the holder apart from their market price. Gold can be used for jewelry and electronics manufacturing. In that sense it is a natural resource. Stocks are shares in a company that runs a business or multiple businesses that could be profitable. Companies h…

Bitcoin absolutely can still be exchanged, and (in many cases) far more easily and cheaper than gold. It can also be stored and secured much cheaper, and even large amounts can be easily taken across borders. That is real value, even if transaction fees are high, and even if you don't directly buy things with it.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#209

Post by mathgeek »

nikanj wrote: post #188
montrose wrote: post #15

This reads a bit like the sort of things people say when breaking up so as not to upset the other person too much. You're a great person, but you're just more of an asset than a medium of exchange, and what I need in my life right now is a medium of exchange. What future does an asset have if people don't actually buy stuff with it? That is not a purely rhetorical question; cryptocurrencies change things a lot. But t…

I never bought anything _with_ real estate, stocks or gold. I always traded them for fiat currency first.

There are many people, especially on HN, that have traded stocks for many other assets without first exchanging them for fiat.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#210

Post by chadash »

0xcafecafe wrote: post #60
nulagrithom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What future does an asset have if people don't actually buy stuff with it? I look at it (maybe naively) like a solid gold bar. You're not going to walk in to a convenience store and pay with a bar of solid gold; you might flee the country with one though. Beyond that, I totally agree with your read on the post. Linking the pull request[0] was especially backhanded. It feels like there's some underlying frustration…

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

Some things are valuable because of their inherent utility. Soliris (which has the distinction of being one of the world's most expensive drugs) is valuable because it has obvious utility: it treats medical conditions and saves lives. Even if it has inherent value for things like electronics or tooth fillings (it has inherent value for jewelry too, but a large part of why we use it in jewelry is because of its high price), gold is mainly seen as valuable because everyone seems to agree that it's valuable. Even if I live in a culture that doesn't particularly value gold, I know that it has a high market value and I can trade it for things that I do value.

Still, is extremely valuable and has been extremely valuable for hundreds of years. It's got the added benefit of being something that people can show off to display their wealth. Even if it's arbitrary why we value gold in the first place (I think aliens looking at our society would find our gold obsession strange), it's probably not going anywhere as a store of wealth. If I buy gold today, unless Armageddon happens, it's very very likely that it will still be highly valuable in 10 years times.

Bitcoin might be valuable in ten years, but like many manias in the past (for example, tulips in 1637 Holland), its value will probably fade at some point unless it has some inherent usefulness as a medium of trade for other useful goods. Gold might eventually lose it's value as well, but it's been artificially inflated for millennia so I'm not betting on it collapsing anytime soon.

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