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Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

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Re: Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

#71
post #28

I completely disagree with the “race to the bottom” framing of the idea that cities shouldn’t compete to provide the best services for the commercial enterprises which reside there. At the 50-75 year timeframe we are talking about at least hundreds of billions of dollars of economic value, if not trillions. The clustering effect of becoming Silicon Valley 2 cannot be overstated. My personal opinion is cities should b…

Completely agree. The reason why we have ever-more-powerful and continuously-cheaper electronics is because of the "race to the bottom".

Doing things better and cheaper is the reason why our standard of living keeps increasing.

I for one would love to live in a city that said "we need to do more with the money we currently have."

Re: Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

#72
post #35

I don't understand people who are conflating the search for HQ2 with Olympic bids and sports stadium bids. The Olympics are most likely a one time thing for a month, although in the future I could forsee it revolving around qualified sites, it takes a lot to convert facilities used for the Olympics into regular infrastucture (see Atlanta and LA). Stadiums I think overall have a better impact, as they can create or re…

Just a small counterpoint - the United Center in Chicago was supposed to revitalize the surrounding neighborhood, but in practice drove it down to the ground. Same deal with Yankee Stadium and Citi Field in New York.

The area around Shea stadium/Citi field was always an industrial area... Re-zoning hasn't happened. ( Shea Stadium was built in the 60s )

The area around Yankee Stadium has always been a vibrant community. Yankee stadium was built in the 1920's

Not sure that you are a new yorker with those two statements... Shea stadium was never re-zoned, so re-vitalization was never its intended goal... Yankee stadium surrounding area has gone thru the usual cycles every other nyc neighborhood has, and the stadium location is almost 100 years old!

Re: Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

#74
post #28

I completely disagree with the “race to the bottom” framing of the idea that cities shouldn’t compete to provide the best services for the commercial enterprises which reside there. At the 50-75 year timeframe we are talking about at least hundreds of billions of dollars of economic value, if not trillions. The clustering effect of becoming Silicon Valley 2 cannot be overstated. My personal opinion is cities should b…

> Just because Amazon happens to be for-profit, their presence in your city is an extraordinary asset It's not though. You purposefully used examples of public or non-profit groups to make it sound like a benefit. But it's not. A more fair comparison would read: It's like someone came to your town and I said, "I want to build a $20m McDonalds, Mobile Gas Station, WalMart and a Best Buy". I would hope your town says "…

> "Public/private partnerships" used as a label to mask corruption and theft; as a way to take socialize any losses but privatize any gains

I couldn't have said it better.

Re: Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because Amazon happens to be for-profit, their presence in your city is an extraordinary asset It's not though. You purposefully used examples of public or non-profit groups to make it sound like a benefit. But it's not. A more fair comparison would read: It's like someone came to your town and I said, "I want to build a $20m McDonalds, Mobile Gas Station, WalMart and a Best Buy". I would hope your town says "…

Amazon workers are highly paid, thus bringing the average income up, and contributing to taxes, strengthening the housing market, and much more. That's interesting that you call it pollution. High paying tech jobs are pollution? That doesn't compute to me. Companies that compete for talent will be pissed, but for lots of others it's a huge win. The only way I see it as a "bad" thing is if you are in a small city that…

> contributing to taxes

Well, not in the case of Chicago http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/amazon-hq2-c...

> strengthening the housing market

Like the strong SF housing market which nobody can afford?

Re: Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

#77
post #47
post #28

I completely disagree with the “race to the bottom” framing of the idea that cities shouldn’t compete to provide the best services for the commercial enterprises which reside there. At the 50-75 year timeframe we are talking about at least hundreds of billions of dollars of economic value, if not trillions. The clustering effect of becoming Silicon Valley 2 cannot be overstated. My personal opinion is cities should b…

> At the 50-75 year timeframe we are talking about at least hundreds of billions of dollars of economic value, if not trillions. The clustering effect of becoming Silicon Valley 2 cannot be overstated. Back in 2004 when I was working at Microsoft, I remember sitting in a bar in downtown Redmond and tossing back some local brew IPAs. This guy sitting next to me was an older dude and longtime fisherman. He was going on…

Amazon doesn't want to spend ten years trying to remake a city into something that might serve its needs. I can see why. It's a huge investment with a very uncertain return.

But, let's turn it around. Why would Amazon want to go to San Antonio, instead of a city like Atlanta?

Re: Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

#78
post #28

I completely disagree with the “race to the bottom” framing of the idea that cities shouldn’t compete to provide the best services for the commercial enterprises which reside there. At the 50-75 year timeframe we are talking about at least hundreds of billions of dollars of economic value, if not trillions. The clustering effect of becoming Silicon Valley 2 cannot be overstated. My personal opinion is cities should b…

Nobody is arguing that. They're arguing that the states are giving away money. Not that they aren't providing services. And nobody thinks Amazon moving to their town will create a silicon valley 2. Plenty of cities host huge employers. They don't become magnets for that industry. They just get fat tax breaks. Many cities actually get worse with these giant companies throwing their weight around. Under Armor is single…

They're arguing that the states are giving away money.

What money are they giving away? If Amazon never comes, then there is no Amazon taxes and thus no tax breaks.

Right now those towns are starting out at zero. If they are smart, they structure the incentives to make sure they are net positive. If they screw that up, well that's on them.

Re: Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

#79
post #28

I completely disagree with the “race to the bottom” framing of the idea that cities shouldn’t compete to provide the best services for the commercial enterprises which reside there. At the 50-75 year timeframe we are talking about at least hundreds of billions of dollars of economic value, if not trillions. The clustering effect of becoming Silicon Valley 2 cannot be overstated. My personal opinion is cities should b…

> Of course Amazon should be asking tough questions of cities akin to “and what are you going to do to support me” before spending $5 billion building a new campus.

Nothing. We exist to support our tax-paying residents and local businesses, and so you will have to work with everyone that's already here if you want something in particular. You can probably expect a new bus line, an extension of the road, sewer, and water system, one new police station, one new firehouse, two new elementary schools, half a middle school, and a new wing of classrooms at the nearest high school. The quality of all that will depend on how much your company improves the local tax base, so don't get too stingy, or the local news will have no problem airing all the dirty laundry for Amazontown a couple years down the road. The zoning board will be busy changing colors on their map so that your people can eventually spend money on drive-through coffee and dog-walkers without having to go all the way downtown.

Amazon needs to come to the table with the attitude "We're going to increase your tax base by $X. What's your plan for spending it?" The ideal city just has to blow the dust off the growth plan they already have and write new names and dates in all the blanks.

Any city that says, "we're going to give you a tax discount" is basically saying "we would rather you send your money off to Wall Street than actually spend it to improve the community that you intend to join here."

I suppose a city could also offer a bureaucrat dedicated to expediting issues related to the new HQ, like building permits and inspections and NIMBY lawsuits, if they wanted to pay the cost of that person's salary as a donation to the city. I just never quite understood the concept of offering discounts to rich people.

Re: Why Don’t the 20 Cities on Amazon's HQ2 Shortlist Collectively Bargain?

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because Amazon happens to be for-profit, their presence in your city is an extraordinary asset It's not though. You purposefully used examples of public or non-profit groups to make it sound like a benefit. But it's not. A more fair comparison would read: It's like someone came to your town and I said, "I want to build a $20m McDonalds, Mobile Gas Station, WalMart and a Best Buy". I would hope your town says "…

Amazon workers are highly paid, thus bringing the average income up, and contributing to taxes, strengthening the housing market, and much more. That's interesting that you call it pollution. High paying tech jobs are pollution? That doesn't compute to me. Companies that compete for talent will be pissed, but for lots of others it's a huge win. The only way I see it as a "bad" thing is if you are in a small city that…

> strengthening the housing market

Which is a unmitigated benefit only to some current real estate property owners and an almost-entirely unmitigated cost to everyone else.

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