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Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

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Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#291

Post by mbrameld »

virmundi wrote: post #114
dundercoder wrote: post #101

I’m 36, live in the suburbs, and in recent years have gone (legally) blind from Retinitis Pigmentosa. Voluntarily giving up my license was one of the hardest and most important decisions I’ve made. There is literally 0 public transportation here. Not even Uber or Lyft have come around. America’s sprawl and dependence on cars is incredible. It wasn’t until I spent time in London, Oxford, and Paris that I could recogni…

Out of curiosity, why give up your license? It's a great ID. You don't have to use it. I know plenty of people with licenses to carry concealed, but don't. To you point about car dependence, not using one is humiliating, at least for me. I live about .25 miles from my office. I walk daily to and from (twice). I feel, and have seen, people look at me like I'm poor. It is a foreign concept to many that walking or bikin…

I think the law requires you to give it up if you can't see well enough to drive. You can get an I'd card that looks a lot like a license, but doesn't permit you to operate motor vehicles on public roads.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#292

Post by pacerwpg »

crottypeter wrote: post #222
avs733 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, and several of my friends when I used to live in Phoenix, were big walkers. Its evening? go for a walk around the neighborhood. Walk to work, even though it was like 1.5 miles...just...walk. Each of us were stopped at least once by police for being suspicious...near as I can tell (we were all >middle class white people) all that was suspicious was us walking on sidewalks. Outside of the biggest cities America is a…

This is very telling even though it was like 1.5 miles... It should be the other way round "People drive to stuff, even though it's only 1.5 miles".

But 1.5 miles in Phoenix is not necessarily as 1.5 miles elsewhere. The sun is oppressive and actively trying to kill you there.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#293

Post by btrettel »

Retric wrote: post #253
emj wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is anecdata, basing these kinds of statements on personal experiences is not a good idea, the truth is we break the rules with the same frequency what ever mode of transport the use. Furthermore in the statistics for accidents in Sweden serious injuries drivers vs. pedestrian/bicyclist you can see that in ~80% of the cases it was caused by drivers.

Bikes are slower so you would expect them to cause even fewer accidents. 20% may not seem like it, but it suggests bikes riders are much worse at following the rules of the road than drivers. In practice you actually see this with bike riders regularly ignoring red lights ect.

Cyclist here. A lot if drivers will be rude (or worse) to me on the road because of the sort of things you said. Based on most objective studies I've seen there is no real difference in the fraction of cyclists and drivers who regularly break the law. They break different laws, but I'd say drivers break the law in much more dangerous ways (e.g., speeding). Cyclists running red lights is a problem, but I can only think of a handful of times in my decade of cycling when a cyclist didn't check for oncoming traffic before going through a red light. In contrast I can think of more times off the top of my head when drivers blew through red lights without looking (most were obviously distracted), but that's to be expected as there are many more drivers than cyclists. Anyway, it seems to me that the fraction of drivers who are bad is about the same as that for cyclists, so someone's mode of transportation is not informative about whether someone's law abiding. Saying otherwise is not justified.

You can find a lot about these studies via Google, e.g.: https://www.google.com/search?q=comparison+of+cyclists+and+d...

By the way, I follow the law to the letter. Doesn't get me any more respect on the road, unfortunately.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#294

Post by justinboogaard »

cablej wrote: post #135
sevensor wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There should be county sponsored transportation for medical appointments. How's your experience been with that kind of service? There's a reason lawbreaking octogenarians still ride golf carts down the sidewalk to get to the doctor's office, hoping they won't get ticketed. > Uber. I'm sorry. Did I mention my grandmother is 96? Ninety-six ?

I've got my 96-year-old grandmother using Uber - https://www.gosmartride.com :)

It could also be worth looking into GoGoGrandparent.com! 24/7 operators and they automatically monitor and file disputes if drivers go on joy rides. (Full disclosure: I work there.)

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#295

Post by TulliusCicero »

maxerickson wrote: post #290
TulliusCicero wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about local, non-arterial roads, those are much worse for pedestrians in the US too. 1. At least here in Munich, most of them here have enough space for one lane of parked cars, and one comfortable lane of traffic; if cars happen to approach each other on such a street, one has to pull out somewhere, or sometimes they can barely squeeze by each other. Contrast that with the US, where room enough for…

They may not be as nice as in Germany but they are not typically hostile either. The streets in town here are ~20-25 feet wide and mostly don't have much traffic. 3 or 4 extra steps to cross an empty street isn't a big problem.

They are. You've just accustomed yourself to the hostility.

Germany isn't even top-tier for active transportation; that title goes to the Netherlands. And even in the Netherlands, more money goes to cars than biking or walking, usually.

You can tell yourself all you want that walking is treated okay in the states, but budgets tell the real story of where priorities lie.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#296

Post by gumby »

virmundi wrote: post #114
dundercoder wrote: post #101

I’m 36, live in the suburbs, and in recent years have gone (legally) blind from Retinitis Pigmentosa. Voluntarily giving up my license was one of the hardest and most important decisions I’ve made. There is literally 0 public transportation here. Not even Uber or Lyft have come around. America’s sprawl and dependence on cars is incredible. It wasn’t until I spent time in London, Oxford, and Paris that I could recogni…

Out of curiosity, why give up your license? It's a great ID. You don't have to use it. I know plenty of people with licenses to carry concealed, but don't. To you point about car dependence, not using one is humiliating, at least for me. I live about .25 miles from my office. I walk daily to and from (twice). I feel, and have seen, people look at me like I'm poor. It is a foreign concept to many that walking or bikin…

> It's a great ID.

A few years ago i started telling people "I don't have any ID" and, remarkably, they all found ways to do business with me.

As it happens I do have a driver's license but I leave it in the car. 99% of the time I am walking around with no ID at all, and my life works fine. You can fly without ID.

I do carry a passport when flying internationally.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#297

Post by Retric »

btrettel wrote: post #293
Retric wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes are slower so you would expect them to cause even fewer accidents. 20% may not seem like it, but it suggests bikes riders are much worse at following the rules of the road than drivers. In practice you actually see this with bike riders regularly ignoring red lights ect.

Cyclist here. A lot if drivers will be rude (or worse) to me on the road because of the sort of things you said. Based on most objective studies I've seen there is no real difference in the fraction of cyclists and drivers who regularly break the law. They break different laws, but I'd say drivers break the law in much more dangerous ways (e.g., speeding). Cyclists running red lights is a problem, but I can only thin…

Minor tranffic violoations are rarely an issue it's the big ones like: I can only think of a handful of times in my decade of cycling when a cyclist didn't check for oncoming traffic before going through a red light. which tend to kill people.

Minor speeding (~15%) is not a significant hazard. Going through a red light is about as dangerous as doing ~50-100MPH over the speed limit which is very rare.

Other things like riding on lane markers between cars is blatantly ignoring the rules of the road and vastly increase the risk of death. Again about as risky as a car slowly driving on the sidewalk, which you just don't see.

Bike riders on sidewalks are again extremely dangerous and often lead to fatalities, but it's also very common.

PS: I worked with bike messengers who may be unusually bad about this stuff.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#298

Post by snrplfth »

burfog wrote: post #189
wahern wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like others say, buses are slow, but that misses the point of the article. Seniors can't or won't walk very far. While buses are more flexible than rail in this regard, neither work for seniors in suburbia. Suburbia is incompatible with mass transit. Seniors want to be able to board and alight within 2 or 3 blocks of their terminus, maximum. Until we get automated cars, the only way to achieve that economically is wi…

I have a grandmother in San Francisco. It only works OK for her because she has a daughter with a car. Taking public transportation isn't something she could seriously consider. I think a lot of people here are imagining themselves as "seniors" without really picturing what that is like. It isn't just like being a 30-year-old male, but with wrinkles and free time. Going up those hills is something the young take for…

The impression I'm getting from this and other comments is that San Francisco is basically a bunch of small mountains where people get mugged.

I live in a pretty flat city, but there's so much transit in the inner city (<8 minute frequencies most of the day) that seniors just take it everywhere. It's safe, it's warm, there's room for grocery carts, there's special seating for the mobility-impaired....maybe it's just implementation.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#299

Post by untog »

souprock wrote: post #170
adrianN wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an American comment to make. Public transit works in many cities perfectly well and you can use it without fearing for your life, or your wallet. Children in elementary school take public transit unattended.

Well, I'm an American. I might feel differently if I were Japanese. Here, children are driven to school by their parents. When school ends, the parents are there waiting in their cars. Kids mostly don't even play outside anymore. Those of you thinking public transport is fine are likely at least a little bit physically imposing and/or you are in relatively fancy locations.

> Here, children are driven to school by their parents.

Weird, here in New York I see kids riding the subway to school every day. I must be imagining them.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#300

Post by btrettel »

Retric wrote: post #297
btrettel wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclist here. A lot if drivers will be rude (or worse) to me on the road because of the sort of things you said. Based on most objective studies I've seen there is no real difference in the fraction of cyclists and drivers who regularly break the law. They break different laws, but I'd say drivers break the law in much more dangerous ways (e.g., speeding). Cyclists running red lights is a problem, but I can only thin…

Minor tranffic violoations are rarely an issue it's the big ones like: I can only think of a handful of times in my decade of cycling when a cyclist didn't check for oncoming traffic before going through a red light. which tend to kill people. Minor speeding (~15%) is not a significant hazard. Going through a red light is about as dangerous as doing ~50-100MPH over the speed limit which is very rare. Other things lik…

Well, my experience differs a lot, and I suspect I've seen at least an order of magnitude more cyclists than you have. I think it's a combination of selective attention and your experience with bike messengers that's potentially the problem. Bike messengers seem to be particularly impatient and more likely to violate the law to shave off a few seconds. Also could be the location. Of the cities I've spent non-negligible time in, I found cyclists in Baltimore to be considerably worse than cyclists in Austin or DC.

To address another point, even the "minor" speeding you mention is a significant hazard. 15% over the speed limit is 32% more kinetic energy. Combine that with the fact that speeding really does not save much time in most situations, I think it's a clear loser in a cost-benefit analysis. Perhaps on an empty highway it's okay. But a driver's time to destination in most cases is more limited by stop lights and traffic, and believe me, I know. As a cyclist who doesn't go faster than 25 mph it's really irritating to have a driver pass me dangerously, only to sit behind them at the next light for 2 minutes, or for me to pass them because they are waiting to turn. I have no detailed statistics for this, but it happens so frequently that I don't think speeding is likely to save much time. It mostly provides psychological relief for impatient drivers. (Your opinion, of course, may differ.)

> Other things like riding on lane markers between cars is blatantly ignoring the rules of the road and vastly increase the risk of death.

I don't "lane split" or "filter" as it's called, but it's worth noting that this is frequently legal (perhaps not in your jurisdiction) and it has its proponents, many of which tout it's apparent safety benefits. I don't think the data is clear about whether it's safe or dangerous on net. I personally don't think it offers any advantages, so it's not worth the potential risk. Also, many drivers encourage cyclists to do that to get out of their way. You should see how infuriated some drivers get when I take the lane at an intersection rather than filter through to the front. I've talked to cyclists who run red lights, and I frequently have heard that they just want to get away from angry drivers, and running the light allows them to do that. (I don't think this is the right approach.) The same applies to sidewalk riding, which is fairly clearly more dangerous, yet riding legally is often discouraged by drivers, sometimes violently.

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