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Ending Bitcoin Support

stripe.com

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Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#131

Post by alanfalcon »

marshray wrote: post #119
0xcafecafe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

Very little though. If the demand for gold were merely industrial it would not need to be mined in such quantities as it has throughout history. I would put jewelry in the 'sentimental' category as well. Not only is Bitcoin purely sentimental, it represents has huge costs in the form of raw energy. Bitcoin's only claim to value is that it is an artifact of an act of ritual sacrifice. One might imagine a precedent in…

I love this imagery. Probably what Neal Stephenson was going for in Reamde, though your simple analogy resonates with me more.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#132

Post by peterjlee »

0xcafecafe wrote: post #60
nulagrithom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What future does an asset have if people don't actually buy stuff with it? I look at it (maybe naively) like a solid gold bar. You're not going to walk in to a convenience store and pay with a bar of solid gold; you might flee the country with one though. Beyond that, I totally agree with your read on the post. Linking the pull request[0] was especially backhanded. It feels like there's some underlying frustration…

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

Whatever inherent value gold has is far below it's current price though. If gold wasn't seen as an asset and was purely valued based on it's utility like iron and copper, it'll be priced far below the current price.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#133

Post by walterbell »

marshray wrote: post #119
0xcafecafe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

Very little though. If the demand for gold were merely industrial it would not need to be mined in such quantities as it has throughout history. I would put jewelry in the 'sentimental' category as well. Not only is Bitcoin purely sentimental, it represents has huge costs in the form of raw energy. Bitcoin's only claim to value is that it is an artifact of an act of ritual sacrifice. One might imagine a precedent in…

Has the ritual sacrifice angle been explored elsewhere? Would make for good video.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#134

Post by aaron-santos »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #57
chocolatebunny wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is definitely acting more like an asset than a medium of exchange, and yeah, I don't see why it would hold any value if it's treated like an asset. But as soon as people realize that then it should go back to being a medium of exchange and then it'll hold value again as an asset? Either way, just because Bitcoin isn't functioning correctly doesn't mean that all cryptocurrencies are not. But I guess at the mom…

Bitcoin is functioning exactly as designed. Satoshi planned for this; it's in the whitepaper. Most people just don't like the idea of Satoshi's endgame vision. But it's working as intended.

> A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.

Is your argument that Stripe is acting as a financial institution or that their exit as a middle man is inches us closer to a peer-to-peer system?

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#135

Post by blueprint »

munchbunny wrote: post #55
blueprint wrote: post #30

I don't have any place to criticize at all but this seems pretty short-sighted. The primary criticism is low tps and fees… but that's exactly what lightning was invented to solve (edit: as I now see someone else mentioned)… and it's already working, in testing phase. Isn't it more effort to remove support then add it back again soon than just to wait a few months? So it /seems/ either something else is going on or th…

"In testing phase" is probably not good enough for Stripe to roll out to their customers. I think what they meant was "we're just not seeing enough usage of Bitcoin payments to justify the costs of supporting it." Which is perfectly fair.

That's why I said "wait". Do you know how long it's been in testing? Do you know how close it is to readiness?

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#136

Post by PascLeRasc »

0xcafecafe wrote: post #60
nulagrithom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What future does an asset have if people don't actually buy stuff with it? I look at it (maybe naively) like a solid gold bar. You're not going to walk in to a convenience store and pay with a bar of solid gold; you might flee the country with one though. Beyond that, I totally agree with your read on the post. Linking the pull request[0] was especially backhanded. It feels like there's some underlying frustration…

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

That's only recently. Gold had a perceived asset-value for thousands of years before we knew what electricity was.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#137

Post by marshray »

eropple wrote: post #24
nvk wrote: post #8

They should have replaced it with Lightning Network, is amazingly fast and cheap and works on top of Bitcoin. I'm running a test node, this stuff really works! > Lightning is a decentralized network using smart contract functionality in the blockchain to enable instant payments across a network of participants. In case you are curious https://lightning.network and another good resource here https://www.reddit.com/r/B…

They could also replace it with money, which one can readily and easily, through systems with well-understood protocols that are agreed upon by participants in those systems, exchange for goods and services. (Even the Lightning Network people don't think you should use it with money. Not that that's likely to be a problem, what with it being for Bitcoin and all. Stripe also doesn't support any other commodities as me…

In fact, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange live cattle futures contract is deliverable, whereas the Bitcoin contract is settled in US dollars. I.e., the biggest US commodities exchange literally considers live cattle to be more practical to deliver than Bitcoin.

To me this suggests Bitcoin is not actually a good medium of exchange.

http://www.cmegroup.com/rulebook/CME/II/100/101/101.pdf

https://www.cmegroup.com/confluence/display/EPICSANDBOX/Bitc...

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#138

Post by throwaway2312 »

criddell wrote: post #130
nxsynonym wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I hate the comparison of crypto to gold or any other "value asset'. Houses are lived in. Stocks act as a cashflow for companies. Even if the world economy collapses you can still use a solid gold bar as a blunt instrument to kill an animal and eat it. Cryptocurrencies have exactly 0 secondary uses.

What's the secondary use of all the shares of AMZN one might have in their eTrade account? That's also just data, right?

Those shares represent the stake in value of a corporation that exists in the real world with real services. Very very different than Bitcoin.

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#139

Post by PascLeRasc »

marshray wrote: post #119
0xcafecafe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold as a metal has an inherent value though. If not only for jewelry, it also has important uses in electronics. The value associated with bitcoin seems purely sentimental.

Very little though. If the demand for gold were merely industrial it would not need to be mined in such quantities as it has throughout history. I would put jewelry in the 'sentimental' category as well. Not only is Bitcoin purely sentimental, it represents has huge costs in the form of raw energy. Bitcoin's only claim to value is that it is an artifact of an act of ritual sacrifice. One might imagine a precedent in…

Wait until the Vatican announces their ICO IndulgenceCoin

Re: Ending Bitcoin Support

#140

Post by underwires »

Klathmon wrote: post #129
ActsJuvenile wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning needs two additional transactions to load and unload payment channels, maximum transaction amount is 0.04 BTC, and it is at least 1 year away from maturity for large scale deployment. Current price bubble will bust long before that, and no one will care about LN anymore.

A full-scale LN needs one transaction to get on the network, then loading and unloading can happen entirely on the network, as well as keeping the channel open indefinitely. Obviously getting to that point will take quite a lot of work, but there is no reason why you ever need to close a payment channel unless someone is trying to break the rules (and if that happens, you'll be happy, because you'll end up with all o…

But (correct me if I'm wrong) payment channels are connected to particular sets of recipients, but not necessarily any and all recipients. Your money is locked into that channel until you close it. You might need to open a different channel to reach your actual recipient.
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