The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce • Hacker News Board

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#61

Post by Ancalagon » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #54

Ancalagon wrote: post #35

I'm sure I'll get some flak for saying this on HN, but I would encourage everyone not to take a contracting gig unless you're absolutely desperate for work. I don't believe most people are cut out to properly negotiate the pay for a contracting position (in that they do not know how to properly account for all of the benefits they are not getting). And by taking a contracting position you are basically encouraging th…

Contract work should be fine. I frankly blame the American government for tying healthcare to not just employment status but particular employer so tightly for so long. It is frankly ridiculous and disgraceful that our political leaders are not held to account for this. The early Tea Party was supposed to be organized around a theme of "stop the nonsense and denial!" with respect to these kinds of problems, but it wa…

Oh I agree completely, it should be fine. But mega-insurance already managed to lobby basic universal health care out of existence. And now that those safety nets have been removed, employers want to have their cake and eat it too by not giving health insurance to their employees. I'd rather the american people have some access to healthcare than none at all. So until the people figure out that universal healthcare is the only way to go, unfortunately this is the best option.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#62

Post by kaybe » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #56

NicoJuicy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should HN disagree with you? I completely agree, I sometimes have problems asking for the right amount of money. And I do it more than the average. It's hard to demand what you want

I don't think HN should disagree with me. In fact I think everyone on HN should repeat what I said to everyone they know . Don't take contract work, unless you're absolutely desperate. The reason I was being so defensive though was because I know there are a lot of freelancers on HN. I'm not trying to bash their lifestyles or work choices, just pointing out that taking this kind of work (whether as a software enginee…

I wonder how country-specific your advice is.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#63

Post by Ancalagon » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

twobyfour wrote: post #57

Ancalagon wrote: post #35

I'm sure I'll get some flak for saying this on HN, but I would encourage everyone not to take a contracting gig unless you're absolutely desperate for work. I don't believe most people are cut out to properly negotiate the pay for a contracting position (in that they do not know how to properly account for all of the benefits they are not getting). And by taking a contracting position you are basically encouraging th…

Most of the "gig economy" is not contracts like a freelancer negotiates. It's tons of tiny jobs at non-negotiable rates like Uber or Fiverr pay their "contractors". I agree that they're terrible jobs that one should take only if truly desperate for work or perhaps to supplement another income. But talking about whether people taking them are cut out to negotiate contracts totally misses the point.

I'd rather not get caught up in semantics, but you are correct, and what I said was mistaken. The point still stands, that independent "employment" is usually a bad deal.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#64

Post by trfergus » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:19 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #38

vinceguidry wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately cash is not as efficient in procuring the sorts of services that are normally provided by benefits, due to the advantages of structured negotiation. You are unlikely to get as good a deal from health insurance providers as your employer.

Beyond just pricing there’s also a question of availability: prior to the ACA you could easily find former contractors who needed to take a corporate job because they or a family member had some sort of long-term condition or risk factor which meant that insurance plans wouldn’t cover them at less than extortionate rates. Having insurance negotiated by individuals is a huge impediment for entrepreneurship.

This is why a Social Health Care system would be such a boon to entrepreneurship. It would remove one of the biggest worries for people creating their own business.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#65

Post by thrownaway954 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #13

Being on your own in the workforce often means you don't have the safety net of benefits and other forms of support that traditional workers do. Even the first sentence is kinda stupid. Benefits are a form of salary. Independent have the freedom to buy the benefits they want and spend their income as they please. What's wrong with that ? The best antidote to fear, she says, is to create a new social safety net where…

The issue is that any decent health plan is around $700 dollars and you cannot deduct that as an expense from your salary when you're a contractor or 1099. Now if you could deduct any and all types of "benefits" (so to speak) from your taxes as contractor, I think that would be a win.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#66

Post by tboyd47 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #35

I'm sure I'll get some flak for saying this on HN, but I would encourage everyone not to take a contracting gig unless you're absolutely desperate for work. I don't believe most people are cut out to properly negotiate the pay for a contracting position (in that they do not know how to properly account for all of the benefits they are not getting). And by taking a contracting position you are basically encouraging th…

As a tech worker I appreciate your firm pro-worker stance, but what if we don't support the current system of having your health care be tied to your job, and letting your employer dictate your allotted vacation time and holidays, while allowing them to ask for unlimited legal unpaid overtime?

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#67

Post by lacker » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

"No benefits" is a somewhat strange way to think about it because all of these benefits, you can buy yourself. They are just really expensive. The underlying problem is that these jobs do not pay as much as people would like. That is still a very real problem. But since this article does not discuss pay at all, it's hard to really understand what's going on from the article.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#68

Post by Ancalagon » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

tboyd47 wrote: post #66

Ancalagon wrote: post #35

I'm sure I'll get some flak for saying this on HN, but I would encourage everyone not to take a contracting gig unless you're absolutely desperate for work. I don't believe most people are cut out to properly negotiate the pay for a contracting position (in that they do not know how to properly account for all of the benefits they are not getting). And by taking a contracting position you are basically encouraging th…

As a tech worker I appreciate your firm pro-worker stance, but what if we don't support the current system of having your health care be tied to your job, and letting your employer dictate your allotted vacation time and holidays, while allowing them to ask for unlimited legal unpaid overtime?

Join unions and be active in government. That's really as simple as I can put it. I don't have an answer to how best to get others to do those things, especially with the general apathy I feel in my generation for anything government-related. But those are the solutions.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#69

Post by korethr » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #37

SamReidHughes wrote: post #4

Good (edit: in the long run). The services they list, like health insurance, retirement, or pensions, should be decoupled from your employer.

I agree, however our government is not up to the task. Ever since Congress passed Obamacare it has been in a fight to survive, instead of trying to improve the system (which has clear benefits) Republicans have spent the past few years trying to dismantle it along with other "entitlements". The American worker is getting squeezed on both sides, private employers are offering less and less and government is not pickin…

As I recall, Obamacare didn't do much, if anything, to decouple health plans from employment. If anything it made it more tightly coupled, by mandating employers with more than so many full-time employees provide health plans. The individual mandate didn't decouple health plans from employers, it just provided additional insult to injury by causing those whom were un- or under-employed and couldn't afford a now even more expensive full price health plan to be facing an even larger tax bill at the end of the year.

Any other good or bad effects from Obamacare notwithstanding, if you want to decouple health plans from employment and specific employers, Obamacare is the wrong direction.

Re: The Challenges of Being in the New Contract Workforce

#70

Post by Ancalagon » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

kaybe wrote: post #62

Ancalagon wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think HN should disagree with me. In fact I think everyone on HN should repeat what I said to everyone they know . Don't take contract work, unless you're absolutely desperate. The reason I was being so defensive though was because I know there are a lot of freelancers on HN. I'm not trying to bash their lifestyles or work choices, just pointing out that taking this kind of work (whether as a software enginee…

I wonder how country-specific your advice is.

Pretty specific to america. Most other countries don't tie healthcare (and a myriad other social services and benefits) and gainful employment to one another.