Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service? • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#21

Post by jstanley » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #19

userbinator wrote: post #10

It seems almost a given that whenever the term "smart" is applied to anything, it's something that tries to monitor, monetise, or otherwise resist your attempts at controlling it --- instead, it attempts to control you . There's enough dystopian science fiction out there that the only thing I think when I hear "smart" is "No thanks."

Regarding "smart devices" and IoT, honestly, I don't qualify it as dystopian . To me, it's just pathetic . A "smart", unnecessarily Internet-connected kettle or lightbulb or juicer isn't going to usher the second coming of fascism to the Western world. Even data breaches connected to those devices aren't going to have any meaningful impact on an average person's life. But it's sad, because it's wasteful. It's ugly. I…

> A "smart", unnecessarily Internet-connected kettle or lightbulb or juicer isn't going to usher the second coming of fascism to the Western world.

Each individual one isn't, but in aggregate they start transferring more and more control over your daily activities to faceless corporations thousands of miles away.

That is dystopian.

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#22

Post by shyn3 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 5:30 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #18

shyn3 wrote: post #17

The public should provide a fair exchange here. Allow Sidewalk Labs to build any infrastructure they like irrespective of laws. Once done, hire whitehats/blackhats, and if they are able to access any information, shutdown the project.

I don't see how that is a fair exchange. There's every chance that Sidewalk Labs would get to build infrastructure that would otherwise be illegal, and collects data that people don't want collected, just because nobody outside Sidewalk Labs managed to get access to the data. Even people inside Sidewalk Labs shouldn't have the data. The data shouldn't be collected in the first place.

If they can build a stable, private, secure system which can increase the quality of life, then I am all for it.

The data seems to be needed to be able to adapt to the ever changing conditions.

Two big issues they can help alleviate, homelessness and addiction.

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#23

Post by Waterluvian » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #10

It seems almost a given that whenever the term "smart" is applied to anything, it's something that tries to monitor, monetise, or otherwise resist your attempts at controlling it --- instead, it attempts to control you . There's enough dystopian science fiction out there that the only thing I think when I hear "smart" is "No thanks."

That's how I feel about smart house stuff. I love my stupid thermostat. It just does its job. Others have added house temperature to the growing list of things in their mind on a regular basis because they have an app or emails or notifications. I set it once and haven't thought about it in years.

I'm not saying it's universally bad. Getting a notification that your front door has been open for more than a minute sounds super useful. But I personally find huge value in simplicity.

I guess I'll be onboard when those things are entirely invisible to me.

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#24

Post by FilterSweep » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

> Generally speaking, the idea is that all of this data — and the newfound insights its analysis could yield — will help cities run more efficiently and innovate at a faster pace than they do today.

Is there a source for that claim?

Or, do these newfound insights merely help Alphabet provided more specialized services to communities (a net gain, I guess), and provide a substantially larger operating budget for lobbying?

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#25

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #21

TeMPOraL wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding "smart devices" and IoT, honestly, I don't qualify it as dystopian . To me, it's just pathetic . A "smart", unnecessarily Internet-connected kettle or lightbulb or juicer isn't going to usher the second coming of fascism to the Western world. Even data breaches connected to those devices aren't going to have any meaningful impact on an average person's life. But it's sad, because it's wasteful. It's ugly. I…

> A "smart", unnecessarily Internet-connected kettle or lightbulb or juicer isn't going to usher the second coming of fascism to the Western world. Each individual one isn't, but in aggregate they start transferring more and more control over your daily activities to faceless corporations thousands of miles away. That is dystopian.

Thing is, most of that isn't dystopian. I can sort of buy people feeling orwellian about Alexa or Google Assistant - but as it is now, most IoT is just random startups hoping that if they abuse some users through a SaaS, they'll get to be the next Google. It never works out, and we're left with tons of electronic junk, that shouldn't even exist in the first place.

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#26

Post by toss1 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 5:53 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #19

userbinator wrote: post #10

It seems almost a given that whenever the term "smart" is applied to anything, it's something that tries to monitor, monetise, or otherwise resist your attempts at controlling it --- instead, it attempts to control you . There's enough dystopian science fiction out there that the only thing I think when I hear "smart" is "No thanks."

Regarding "smart devices" and IoT, honestly, I don't qualify it as dystopian . To me, it's just pathetic . A "smart", unnecessarily Internet-connected kettle or lightbulb or juicer isn't going to usher the second coming of fascism to the Western world. Even data breaches connected to those devices aren't going to have any meaningful impact on an average person's life. But it's sad, because it's wasteful. It's ugly. I…

yup, I just want a thermostat that I can remotely access -directly- and not through someone else's server. Just keep track of my IP addr myself, and yes if the ISP swaps it out for another I'll have to update it when I get there again... blah, blah, blah, yes' it'd be fine with me.

Yet I cannot fine one. Every single 'smart' thermostat has some corporate service I have to negotiate through for access, and of course if that is down, well, I'm outta luck. and, they're surely accumulating all of my data.

Anybody know of one?

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#27

Post by mcpherrinm » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #26

TeMPOraL wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding "smart devices" and IoT, honestly, I don't qualify it as dystopian . To me, it's just pathetic . A "smart", unnecessarily Internet-connected kettle or lightbulb or juicer isn't going to usher the second coming of fascism to the Western world. Even data breaches connected to those devices aren't going to have any meaningful impact on an average person's life. But it's sad, because it's wasteful. It's ugly. I…

yup, I just want a thermostat that I can remotely access -directly- and not through someone else's server. Just keep track of my IP addr myself, and yes if the ISP swaps it out for another I'll have to update it when I get there again... blah, blah, blah, yes' it'd be fine with me. Yet I cannot fine one. Every single 'smart' thermostat has some corporate service I have to negotiate through for access, and of course i…

If you check out Home Assistant's climate control category, you can look for devices with IoT class "local polling" and "local push".

There are a number of options there.

Scroll to the bottom of this page for the listing:

https://home-assistant.io/components/climate/

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#28

Post by ryukafalz » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #26

TeMPOraL wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding "smart devices" and IoT, honestly, I don't qualify it as dystopian . To me, it's just pathetic . A "smart", unnecessarily Internet-connected kettle or lightbulb or juicer isn't going to usher the second coming of fascism to the Western world. Even data breaches connected to those devices aren't going to have any meaningful impact on an average person's life. But it's sad, because it's wasteful. It's ugly. I…

yup, I just want a thermostat that I can remotely access -directly- and not through someone else's server. Just keep track of my IP addr myself, and yes if the ISP swaps it out for another I'll have to update it when I get there again... blah, blah, blah, yes' it'd be fine with me. Yet I cannot fine one. Every single 'smart' thermostat has some corporate service I have to negotiate through for access, and of course i…

Not sure about IP thermostats, but if you're willing to get a USB stick to interface with the network, a thermostat that speaks Z-Wave might be your best bet. This one seems highly rated on Amazon[0], but there are lots to choose from.

From there I'd recommend using something like Home Assistant[1] - it's an open source project that provides a UI for a ton of different smart home gear. I use it at home to control some smart lights and automate things based on whether I'm home or not. (There's also OpenHAB, but in my experience configuring that is much more involved.)

[0] https://www.amazon.com/GoControl-Thermostat-Z-Wave-Battery-P... [1] https://home-assistant.io/

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#29

Post by dcole2929 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

shyn3 wrote: post #22

jstanley wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that is a fair exchange. There's every chance that Sidewalk Labs would get to build infrastructure that would otherwise be illegal, and collects data that people don't want collected, just because nobody outside Sidewalk Labs managed to get access to the data. Even people inside Sidewalk Labs shouldn't have the data. The data shouldn't be collected in the first place.

If they can build a stable, private, secure system which can increase the quality of life, then I am all for it. The data seems to be needed to be able to adapt to the ever changing conditions. Two big issues they can help alleviate, homelessness and addiction.

Ok I'll bite. How can collecting this data, in any way, help alleviate homelessness or addiction?

Re: Welcome to the neighbourhood, have you read the terms of service?

#30

Post by jstanley » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #26

TeMPOraL wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding "smart devices" and IoT, honestly, I don't qualify it as dystopian . To me, it's just pathetic . A "smart", unnecessarily Internet-connected kettle or lightbulb or juicer isn't going to usher the second coming of fascism to the Western world. Even data breaches connected to those devices aren't going to have any meaningful impact on an average person's life. But it's sad, because it's wasteful. It's ugly. I…

yup, I just want a thermostat that I can remotely access -directly- and not through someone else's server. Just keep track of my IP addr myself, and yes if the ISP swaps it out for another I'll have to update it when I get there again... blah, blah, blah, yes' it'd be fine with me. Yet I cannot fine one. Every single 'smart' thermostat has some corporate service I have to negotiate through for access, and of course i…

It's relatively easy to build one yourself. I did it, it works great.

I used 2 ESP8266's - one in the temperature sensing and control box in my office, and one controlling a relay inside the boiler. When it's too hot the relay is opened to switch the boiler off, when it's too cold the relay is closed to switch the boiler on.