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Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

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Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#171

Post by falcolas »

manicdee wrote: post #93
ucaetano wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pilots are never expected to get their eyes off the controls. Pilots do so all the time, because airplanes aren't flying in a congested 2D space. Airspace is mostly empty, with very large distances between planes and features, allowing for plenty of early warning. And an airplane's "autopilot" has nothing to do with Tesla's Autopilot. Their purpose and working mechanisms are completely different. The airplane analo…

The aircraft autopilot is pretty much the same thing. It steers on the designated lane, maintaining attitude, and relies on the pilot to be aware of conditions. It operates the controls but relies on the human operator for supervision. Pilots talk about “flying in the magenta” and exactly the same thing applies to Tesla Autopilot. Believing that autopilot means something different is the bullshit attitude that has to…

Just a quick note - most of the larger aircraft with autopilots are most often flown under IFR (Instrument Flight Rules), which means that there is someone else (Air Traffic Controllers) managing all of the routing and collision avoidance for them.

Even pilots in IFR conditions are doing little more than maintaining a particular altitude and heading.

This means that a aircraft and vehicle autopilot have very different requirements. They are not, at all, doing the exact same things.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#172

Post by falcolas »

fleitz wrote: post #28
jsjohnst wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn’t agree more. It baffles me how Tesla can get away with such blatant false advertising (it’s anything but “autopilot” in any layman sense), especially in light of there being multiple incidents of bad accidents which showed them at fault.

There's lots of autopilot systems that smash into shit, sailboats are one of them, you can put your sailboat on autopilot and it's going to smash into stuff. Samething with an airliner, autopilot will not avoid another aircraft.

Airliners have Air Traffic Control to route them, removing all but the rarest of edge cases for "smashing into stuff".

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#173

Post by jsjohnst »

nightski wrote: post #155
jsjohnst wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An aircraft autopilot is not designed to automatically avoid collisions The A380 begs to differ... http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2009/08/eas...

Yes I was aware of TCAS. There are some cool technologies out there. I am pretty sure out of all aircraft with autopilots, the amount with this technology is extraordinarily low. Especially if you are considering only personal aircraft and not ones designed to carry over 1,000 passengers.

The topic of conversation in this thread is about the system that the general population thinks about when they hear “airline autopilot”. Most folks would naturally think of commercial passenger planes and their (believed) capabilities.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#174

Post by Bromskloss »

jsjohnst wrote: post #169
Bromskloss wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s anything but “autopilot” in any layman sense To be fair, an autopilot, in the traditional sense, just maintains a heading and an altitude.

Most commercial airline autopilots in use today could land the plane on auto if desired by the flight crew, so no, they don’t “just maintains a heading and an altitude”.

I think we all know that such technology exists. That is why I specifically said "in the traditional sense", to point out that I'm talking about what the word was invented for.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#175

Post by SheinhardtWigCo »

greglindahl wrote: post #142
therein wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been thinking about this more and more on my commute every day. Commuting up and down US101, I see so many Tesla's driving on the left lane, setting their autopilot to 65mph, just blocking traffic. There needs to be a visible indicator on the outside. By the way, one can speculate there are interesting ways to trigger beeps inside these Teslas coasting on the left lane.

Huh. I never see Teslas going the speed limit in the HOV lane on 101.

Just driving on Autopilot at the speed of traffic but at a safe stopping distance is enough to prompt a minority of assholes to aggressively tailgate and then pass and insert themselves into that empty space in front. Happens most days.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#176

Post by cma »

divbzero wrote: post #131
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #17

You know I take issue with Tesla on these incidents. They're trying to have it both ways. They market it as 'autopilot' to appeal to the dream of complete self-driving but if an accident actually happens it can never be the fault of autopilot. After all it's required for the driver to be paying attention so if they didn't override autopilot it's obvious they weren't paying attention. Really I'd like to see the govern…

Tesla should have branded the current system “Copilot”, and reserved “Autopilot” for trumpeting true level 5 self-driving.

But you can hand off complete control to a co-pilot in a plane while you go use the restroom, etc. With autopilot you are supposed to be there to monitor it.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#177

Post by greglindahl »

SheinhardtWigCo wrote: post #175
greglindahl wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I never see Teslas going the speed limit in the HOV lane on 101.

Just driving on Autopilot at the speed of traffic but at a safe stopping distance is enough to prompt a minority of assholes to aggressively tailgate and then pass and insert themselves into that empty space in front. Happens most days.

Yes, that's how adjustable cruise control works in many cars that have it.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#178

Post by dkonofalski »

divbzero wrote: post #131
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #17

You know I take issue with Tesla on these incidents. They're trying to have it both ways. They market it as 'autopilot' to appeal to the dream of complete self-driving but if an accident actually happens it can never be the fault of autopilot. After all it's required for the driver to be paying attention so if they didn't override autopilot it's obvious they weren't paying attention. Really I'd like to see the govern…

Tesla should have branded the current system “Copilot”, and reserved “Autopilot” for trumpeting true level 5 self-driving.

Guaranteed that there was a licensing issue or trademark issue that prevented that.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#179

Post by hexane360 »

greglindahl wrote: post #141
hexane360 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, but I honestly have not really heard much from owners. Definitely not nearly enough to call it a representative sample.

Instead of your personal experience, how about data? https://insideevs.com/tesla-autopilot-survey-results-98-unde...

Okay, again I'm not disagreeing with you, but those questions are about as leading as you can get. Ask a portion of the population "Did you know that meiosis is the process through which cells divide?" and you'll get a lot of yes's.

Re: Tesla ‘on Autopilot’ slams into parked fire truck on freeway

#180

Post by hndamien »

greglindahl wrote: post #150
hndamien wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla state that autopilot will "match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage." I believe the problem lies in "Enhanced" and "Full self driving hardware". While this is an important point…

Tesla has a Level 2 system. People who actually use it see more than just the marketing material you've quoted.

Not really. I am one of the people that actually use it. They have some warnings for sure, but you should probably note I also wrote the first comment in this thread.
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