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Why Discrete Math Is Important

artofproblemsolving.com

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Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#61
> Many students, especially bright and motivated students, find algebra, geometry, and even calculus dull and uninspiring

That was me. I grew up believing I hated math. Struggled all the way through middle & high school to AP calc and just found it incredibly boring and tedious. Ended up opting out of doing engineering/science in undergrad because I just couldn't stand doing all the math.

Long story short, years later ended up going back to school for CS and took discrete math as one of my first courses, and remember being blown away by how cool it was. All this time thinking I hated math!

Hard to say exactly what the difference is. Partially I think my brain just groks discrete concepts more easily.

But also the class had a heavy emphasis on proofs, which I think was really important. At a certain level this type of problem-solving can start to resemble philosophy. Chugging through a proof, figuring out just the right way to construct it and slapping a triumphant "Q.E.D." at the end is an empowering experience, especially the first time. There's a world of difference between "you throw a ball, solve for its velocity at time x" and "prove that there must be a ball" (I'm embellishing of course). It's a difference between obtaining an answer for a specific instance of a situation, and shedding light on some fundamental/universal property of the world. To me that feels profound in a sense, which makes it exciting.

Proofs don't belong solely to the domain of discrete math, of course, so this probably isn't as much a testament to the subject as it is to the general problem-solving approach. It would be nice if students could get exposed to this a bit earlier, I think there are many folks like myself who would realize that they can love math too.

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#62
post #5

I have to admit, being a hybrid math/csci student, I never understood the place of discrete math in mathematics or computer science. It always seemed like a mish-mash of different topics I'd studied in algebra->geometry->calc (including mv calc, linear algebra, diff eq, and series and sequences)->real analysis. This article is a bit too brief to properly place it (at least I still don't see it), could someone provide…

It doesn't. In my experience, "Discrete Math" is not offered as a math class, but rather as a computer class. In effect, it is the "math for computer science majors" class.

At the university I went to both the math and CS departments offered discrete math courses with slightly different focuses.

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#63
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice thing about "continuous" math is that we have so many "standardised" tools in its toolbox, contrasted with "ad-hoc-edness" of discrete math. Hence interesting is solving discrete problems with "continuous" tools - like e.g. http://ac.cs.princeton.edu/home/

You can also see it in the opposite sense. The continuous models are an ad-hoc, purely mental, construction. When you have to solve a PDE, you actually build a discrete model (using finite elements), and solve the discrete thing. Except in very simple toy problems, you can never "solve" anything using only continuous tools.

Spectral methods, or any methods where you have chosen a basis of continuous functions and are solving for weights produces solutions in the continuous domain. That's not a discrete model.

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#64

Discrete math is important because the universe is discrete. Continuous math is an approximation that sometimes, but not always, is rather convenient. Once I wrapped my mind around this, I started to understand something. Manifolds are just graphs with many vertices. Fourier analysis studies the eigen-decomposition of the laplacian on a graph, and is used to solve heat, wave and dispersion equations. Stokes theorem (…

>Manifolds are just graphs with many vertices.

Okay, I'll bite. How? What is the definition of the tangent space? Dimension?

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#65
Even if we don't teach a single day of number theory, I think we can all agree that modern society would be better if everybody had to have a semester of basic probability or statistics as part of their education.

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#66
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some sense, don't the modern formulations of real analysis, etc. already start from as close to discrete maths as you can get (set theory)? Sets -> Naturals -> Rationals -> Reals I don't understand how you could reformulate study of continuous structures into discrete math in any sense other than the above.

Every mathematical object (ok, this is false but that's not the point here) can be constructed in ZFC (the standard axiomatic framework for set theory) so you can construct the real numbers in terms of sets (if you want more precise informations on this construction look up Dedekind cuts). However this is irrelevant to, say, analysis, you could define the real numbers as the unique (up to isomorphism) complete, order…

I understand that it's a stretch; thus the "in some sense" and "close".

See my last sentence. It's not clear to me how you could reformulate analysis, which in many ways is the study of the infinite, into discrete maths in any way other than the very loose sense of starting with ZFC.

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#67

Discrete math is important because the universe is discrete. Continuous math is an approximation that sometimes, but not always, is rather convenient. Once I wrapped my mind around this, I started to understand something. Manifolds are just graphs with many vertices. Fourier analysis studies the eigen-decomposition of the laplacian on a graph, and is used to solve heat, wave and dispersion equations. Stokes theorem (…

>because the universe is discrete Many aspects of the universe are not known to be discrete, such as space, time, energy, and much, much more. It's not unreasonable that there are discrete and continuous aspects to the universe. Many things that pop science treats as discrete, such as an electron, are most accurately described as interactions of a continuous fields via topological quantum field theories. Treating the…

"not known to be discrete" does not imply "It's not unreasonable that there are discrete and continuous aspects to the universe"; it is not known that anything is continuous either.

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#68

Discrete math is important because the universe is discrete. Continuous math is an approximation that sometimes, but not always, is rather convenient. Once I wrapped my mind around this, I started to understand something. Manifolds are just graphs with many vertices. Fourier analysis studies the eigen-decomposition of the laplacian on a graph, and is used to solve heat, wave and dispersion equations. Stokes theorem (…

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. How does Stokes' theorem in a discrete setting just amount to associativity?

(I wondered about the sort of discrete differential geometry found e.g. here https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~kmcrane/Projects/DDG/paper.pdf and here https://arxiv.org/pdf/math/0508341.pdf but in that setting the situation seems to be more "Stokes' theorem is true by definition".)

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#69
post #55
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Discrete math is important because the universe is discrete. Is time discrete?

Unknown. There's at least one approach to quantum gravity based on the idea that it is (causal sets), but we haven't proven it one way or another.

I'd rather ask: Is space discrete? We know there are discrete particles, but AFAIR they can potentially move to any position in the continuum, i.e. for each particle, x, y and z are in the domain of reals (or some huge real interval), not some discrete subset of it.

Or, am I mistaken?

Re: Why Discrete Math Is Important

#70

Discrete math is important because the universe is discrete. Continuous math is an approximation that sometimes, but not always, is rather convenient. Once I wrapped my mind around this, I started to understand something. Manifolds are just graphs with many vertices. Fourier analysis studies the eigen-decomposition of the laplacian on a graph, and is used to solve heat, wave and dispersion equations. Stokes theorem (…

Hello Doron Zeilberger. Did not know you read HN.
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