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Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

nytimes.com

111–120 of 148 posts

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#111
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A well thought-out and researched response to a breathless conspiracy theory. Nicely done.

From here, I can’t tell which is the conspiracy theory and which (if any) is the truth. (I wonder if my complete lack of clue about what is plausible in this context is a common theme amongst conspiracy theory believers?)

Welcome to Middle East politics. The people who live here are in the same boat with rumours and complex theories about who is in cahootz and what they really want.

In truth, I think the ME is a relatively uncoordinated place. All these different motivations and intesrests exist. Thhe pipeline idea is real-ish, the Qatari support for "extremist Islamists" is too, though Saudis support Islamists too when it lines up. So, it's hard to entirety dismiss or disprove any of these overarching motivation theories. The US and Russia have always proxy-fought in the region, but they never really knew what they wanted there.

My thought is that there is no coherent actor, just a mishmash of interests, ideologies and unpredictable chaos.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seymour Hersh has written a phenomenal amount about Syria. Here are a couple of interesting articles: https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-a... https://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-mi... Stratfor, something like a private intelligence organization - well beyond a think tank, also has written a vast amount on Syria to the point that I think just googling for 'strator syria' w…

Hersh's recent work has been pointedly criticized as that of a conspiracy theorist versus an investigative journalist. [1] Generalizing reporting in "most US mainstream outlets" as "childlike misrepresentation" is the kind of fake news doubt-sowing that is killing our (America's) relationship with facts. There has been some excellent reporting on the relatively complex Syrian Civil War from stalwarts such as the Wash…

In the end none of us are on the ground and so we're left to rely on the integrity of the individuals and organizations that are reporting on issues. If you would rather rely on Vox, WaPo, Buzzfeed, and increasingly even the NYT for in depth and critical analysis then that's certainly your prerogative.

At the same time, hailing them as beacons of integrity and truth is unreasonable. They increasingly routinely print news that later turns out to be entirely fake with corrections and updates often tucked away from site of their readers - though we also certainly contribute to that in that a million people may share a sensationalized story that turns out to be fake, but only a handful will share the correction stating it was all false. In a world where many receive their news through social media and implicitly virally, one thing I would certainly agree with you is that America is having an increasingly challenged "relationship with facts."

Another issue is that the US is obviously not monolithic. Speaking poorly of the US in one way or another will be either widely hailed or widely condemned depending on the person speaking and whom they're speaking of and to. This sort of split in society has become particularly true in the media today. All organizations you listed, for instance, are intermingled to the point of incestuousness and you will rarely find disagreement between them, in no small part due to this. See, for instance, things like JournoList [1] turned CabaList in which participating journalists at times conspired to kill stories that reflected poorly on their own personal biases, and at other times they even discussed ways they could conspire to try to kill off media outlets that did not conform to their biases. Perhaps it's fit to conclude there that the creator of JournoList was none other than Ezra Klein, the founder and now editor in chief of Vox.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#113
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal was to create a new pipeline from Qatar to Europe so Europe don’t have to buy gas from Russia. Your missing something obvious with this conspiracy theory. Look at a map. Iraq borders both SA and Turkey. It would be cheaper to build through Iraq than destabilize an entire country. Believe it or not, every time something goes wrong in the world, the US is not behind it. These conspiracy theories help no one.

The other conspiracy that exist, there is three countries that surround occupied Palestine two of them already in USA pocket and one still refuse to make relation with occupied Palestine so destabilize Syria is big win for USA.

What is "occupied Palestine" in your count?

Just to clarify if it is Gaza+West Bank, or the usual Arab definition that includes all of Israel, or all of the old Palestine mandate that included also present-day Jordan?

Depending on what is "Palestine", it s surrounded by 5 to 7 countries: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi-Arabia and Egypt.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#114
post #81
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? where are you proofs? and if your fictional proofs exist then why they didn't took Qatar into international court.

If you really want to look for proofs, you can google it. I am an Arab and since the the mid 90s Qatar has been providing all Sunni islamic groups from MB, Hamas and Al Qaeda with all kinds of support (money, media, bribing western politicians, etc...)

So you’re saying you have all the inside scoop on terrorism just because you’re an Arab? You should get a job in the US intelligence agencies, they seem to have similar thoughts!

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am betting on the Kurds to kick their ass. The Kurds are a well trained, well equipped (for the moment at least), motivated force defending themselves. The Turks (IMHO) are unseasoned forces are fighting battle that is against international laws, and is for a country run by a dictator. Both points that are huge factors against their success. It will probably come down to air power, I wonder what the Kurds have in t…

Turkey has the second largest standing military force in NATO. They are also, well, in NATO. The current situation is uncomfortable for a whole lot of people, but when push comes to shove, I don't see how a proxy force with questionable allegiance stands up to a NATO country with a massive air and ground force.

NATO is hardly going to support Turkey's adventures in Syria so it'll have little relevance for that fight.

And while the Turkish have far more firepower and air power than Kurds, the terrain is extremely favourable for a defending force, particularly when it is as motivated and well-trained as the Kurdish fighters. A Turkish attack can become a debacle, or at militarily "best", a massacre of civilian population resulting in further alienating Turkey from civilization.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#117
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really want to look for proofs, you can google it. I am an Arab and since the the mid 90s Qatar has been providing all Sunni islamic groups from MB, Hamas and Al Qaeda with all kinds of support (money, media, bribing western politicians, etc...)

So you’re saying you have all the inside scoop on terrorism just because you’re an Arab? You should get a job in the US intelligence agencies, they seem to have similar thoughts!

I would guess a lot of it is not really inside information, just the ability to read Arabic-language media.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you follow Russian media agencies closely so you can categorize information by national news agencies, or you're just labeling me for telling facts that you don't like to hear. Neither behavior is not smart.

If you're interested, I regularly read what some of Putin's supporter I know post on Reddit (mostly coming from RT and Sputnik). This way, I keep up on that kind of propaganda without having to read all the Russian media agencies directly. To anticipate your next point: is there propaganda in the West? Yes, absolutely. Is it the same level BS as Putin's propaganda? No way - in the West there are just so many more ind…

I'm Russian. And while I agree that we have a propaganda, I can't say that the situation is any better in the West.

When I was living in UK for a while, I was amazed by how some really smart people have 100% level of trust to national media, so that they can't even perceive another point of view. All arguments were based on the fact that their media is historically old and never lies because it can't risk its reputation. And all Russian media is propaganda and controlled by Putin. It was 2014 and I can't say how much I was asked what I think about Putin. Honestly I didn't know what to answer because I don't like to talk about politics.

But since that time I know that if you look around the world you will notice the same BS but in different boxing. And people are equally vulnerable to buy it.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#119
post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

> That was also the time FSA split into bunch of groups; Wahabist ISIS and socialist YPG Well that's completely wrong. The idea that ISIS and YPG would ever fight together is so stupid it's hilarious. Maybe read less RT. YPG has always been independent, they're Kurds, you idiot. ISIS has always been its own group, but started turning on everyone else at the end of 2014. The FSA is a mix of radical to less radical Ara…

Isn't it possible to say the same without calling the parent an idiot?

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, but establishing the truth from a mathematical standpoint and navigating in life, which involves a huge amount of (most often serviceable) rules of thumbs, are two different things. So there seems to be some arbitrary threshold where the rules of thumb is deemed good enough (eg. my toddler has chocolate all over him near the empty cookie jar) and when it's not (eg. put-up job). And from my experience, people wi…

I wonder how often you consider “the truth as always somewhere in the middle” and decide that your toddler has been partially framed by the cat, while also having stolen some of the cookies. I suspect not often.

Hardly anyone ever seriously accuses the cat, which is why the rule of thumb works in the first place. That's pretty much my point.
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