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Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

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541–550 of 702 posts

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#541
All the people here excoriating Torvalds for using mean language couldn't do in a lifetime what he does in the average week.

Let the man get his job done and stop pretending to be offended by someone who communicates effectively.

I'm tired of this pearl-clutching nonsense from the youngsters in tech.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#542

A lot of people trying to defend being a jerk as necessary in these circumstances. I think Google culture proves the opposite: Googley code and peer reviews, blameless postmortems, and a host of other mechanisms that de-escalate and de-personalize things. The Meltdown work at Google probably didn't begin with a rant about morons. It's possible to construct a culture where people can air grievances and criticize other…

Not just Google. This is standard in any major tech company. His behavior and abhorrent and there is no excuse. Tech should embrace mentoring, learning, constructive criticism, and learning from failures. Yes, this is hopefully a once in a lifetime situation -- but our values need to transcend that. This is not the first time that Linus has swept decency under the carpet. Linus would be such an HR issue at most companies and likely shown the door. If anyone is championing or approving his behavior, this will not win you support and 'points' long term.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#543
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big simplification: Proper way to fix an hardware bug like this, is that newer cpu gets protected by default, and they answer they are when queried. So you can ask the CPU "what's your status on bug X" and the cpu answers "i'm good, you don't need to do anything" (newer fixed chips), or "i know about it but was already built, and need microcode update/special behavior to protect myself" (current chips with microcode…

Awesome explanation. That is indeed deserving of the word "f*cked". My next CPU will be an AMD then.

That's the upshot of this debacle for me, too. Intel has lost me (again) as a customer.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome explanation. That is indeed deserving of the word "f*cked". My next CPU will be an AMD then.

That's the upshot of this debacle for me, too. Intel has lost me (again) as a customer.

How did they (temporarily) win you back?

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#545
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would this be bad faith? Assume no fix is available, at least for existing processors, that doesn't result in reduced performance. What should Intel do? - Force users to take the performance hit? - Let users decide whether to take the performance hit in exchange for security?

Users can already choose. They can buy old processors without the fix. I really don't see what case anyone could have against Intel if they just fixed this. Having a fix but turning it off by default seems far more dangerous from a legal perspective. Or having the processor perform far worse in reality than advertised.

Yeah if you could point me towards instructions on how I can install this old processor I just bought in my Macbook that'd be great, also if you know how I can install this old processor in my AWS instances that'd be awesome too.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#546

A lot of people trying to defend being a jerk as necessary in these circumstances. I think Google culture proves the opposite: Googley code and peer reviews, blameless postmortems, and a host of other mechanisms that de-escalate and de-personalize things. The Meltdown work at Google probably didn't begin with a rant about morons. It's possible to construct a culture where people can air grievances and criticize other…

Not just Google. This is standard in any major tech company. His behavior and abhorrent and there is no excuse. Tech should embrace mentoring, learning, constructive criticism, and learning from failures. Yes, this is hopefully a once in a lifetime situation -- but our values need to transcend that. This is not the first time that Linus has swept decency under the carpet. Linus would be such an HR issue at most compa…

I think the context in which Linus exists professionally is perennially misunderstood. IMO he basically has to be this way, or else the kernel would have been effectively stolen by [insert powerful tech company] at various crucial moments throughout its history. I see his particular position in technology as being truly unique, and that it essentially just requires somewhat exaggerated rhetoric and even superficially childish antics to protect the independence of the kernel.

This is not to say that Linus’ behavior is a good model for “how engineers should generally behave”. It just isn’t, and anyone behaving this way in a company should almost certainly be fired. I think he’d probably agree, to boot. But I could be wrong about that.

P.S. I hope I don’t come across with disagreeing with you about any of what you think tech “should” be. I totally agree with you.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaining about downvotes is never cool.

I'm not complaining. Merely expecting, given that this is not the first time I've posted something similar, and I felt the need to point out the double standard ahead of time this time. Downvote away! I just hope that the hypocrisy is clear. edit: Or there may be a totally non hypocritical reason to downvote me, which I would also encourage.

> given that this is not the first time I've posted something similar

Funny, I didn’t see that in your ten day long comment history.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaining about downvotes is never cool.

I'm not complaining. Merely expecting, given that this is not the first time I've posted something similar, and I felt the need to point out the double standard ahead of time this time. Downvote away! I just hope that the hypocrisy is clear. edit: Or there may be a totally non hypocritical reason to downvote me, which I would also encourage.

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#549

A lot of people trying to defend being a jerk as necessary in these circumstances. I think Google culture proves the opposite: Googley code and peer reviews, blameless postmortems, and a host of other mechanisms that de-escalate and de-personalize things. The Meltdown work at Google probably didn't begin with a rant about morons. It's possible to construct a culture where people can air grievances and criticize other…

Not just Google. This is standard in any major tech company. His behavior and abhorrent and there is no excuse. Tech should embrace mentoring, learning, constructive criticism, and learning from failures. Yes, this is hopefully a once in a lifetime situation -- but our values need to transcend that. This is not the first time that Linus has swept decency under the carpet. Linus would be such an HR issue at most compa…

You are right on some level, but there may be exceptions to the rule. Keep in mind that Google may never have grown beyond its first years without Linux (and Linus guiding it). There was no other economically viable option with development at the state of the art, at least in those days (the late 90s).

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#550
post #11

I must say that I'm really happy that Linux is taking a stance on this one. He doesn't care what the legal consequences to Intel are, he is pushing for a proper technical solution damned be the consequences.

You’re not the only one, he may be brash at times but god damn we need him and maybe we need his brash anti-bullshit meter too.

I suspect this isn't even Linus at "full throttle"[1], as it were, since he's still censoring his "fuck"s.

[1] https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75

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