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Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

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Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#81

Post by joe_the_user »

pbnjay wrote: post #69

On the one hand, I don't want this to happen to me either (but I'm more likely to retire somewhere accessible than the suburbs). But on the other, this whole situation just screams entitlement. They'd rather stay in their houses with all of their stuff, which even their own kids don't want [1]. Just imagine if they would actually move out of their houses: it would open up more housing, making it more affordable to ne…

Entitlement to what? Staying alive?

Most old people don't have the money to move into a retirement home so where would they go if they sell their house? Even with high housing prices, the money from a home sale isn't going to net more than enough for 2-5 years in a retirement community.

And yeah I've dealt with these issue for both my parents.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#82

Post by cmurf »

revelation wrote: post #58

That's because prior to being too old to drive, they didn't give a fuck about the public transportation system. Actually, even after being too old to drive, they happily continue to vote against public transportation. It's bizarre to suggest our transportation system is failing them. It's exactly the transportation system they voted for, the transportation system a good bunch of them built, designed, railroaded throu…

It's baby boomers. Overwhelmingly the baby boomers I know are all: driving is a right, not a privilege, and I'm insured and insurance solves all problems and mistakes, rip out those damn trees and put in more car lanes so I don't have to wait in traffice. Gimme! And my grandparents' generation were fans of the bus and trollies before big oil got them ripped out of most American cities in favor of buses, and wanted people in general to have an easier time to get around.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#83

Post by joe_the_user »

sevensor wrote: post #80
pbnjay wrote: post #69

On the one hand, I don't want this to happen to me either (but I'm more likely to retire somewhere accessible than the suburbs). But on the other, this whole situation just screams entitlement. They'd rather stay in their houses with all of their stuff, which even their own kids don't want [1]. Just imagine if they would actually move out of their houses: it would open up more housing, making it more affordable to ne…

> They'd rather stay in their houses with all of their stuff Or they're old and poor, have little more than a house to their name, and the alternative is indifferent care by bottom-feeding nursing homes.

What homes are those?

I mean "nursing home" and "retirement home" are two different things. One houses the chronically ill, often old - at very high prices but payable by insurances/the-state and the other houses old people at merely high prices but these prices have to be paid by the residents and there's no way to make them low even cutting all your costs. And apartments and trailer parks that house seniors at a slight discount.

But yeah, you're basically right, selling one house to movement into uncertain housing is terrible decision and there's

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#84

Post by atypicaluser »

pbnjay wrote: post #69

On the one hand, I don't want this to happen to me either (but I'm more likely to retire somewhere accessible than the suburbs). But on the other, this whole situation just screams entitlement. They'd rather stay in their houses with all of their stuff, which even their own kids don't want [1]. Just imagine if they would actually move out of their houses: it would open up more housing, making it more affordable to ne…

My initial reaction to reading this - 'Hey old people, just die already!'

A more considered reaction - shouldn't you at least offer 'older folks' an incentive to give up their lives other than 'it'd be better for society'? I'll be one of these older folks in a few years, and were I to stay in my house into my dotage, I'm three minutes away by car from the emergency room, less than a minute from several groceries, coffee shops, barbers, laundries, parks, etc., ensconced in a building (a future coffin?) whose wiring, plumbing, masonry, landscaping, etc., are all known to me. Please feel free to enlighten this middle-aged goat on why he should be put out to pasture to give room to 'new homeowners.'

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#85

Post by Pxtl »

joe_the_user wrote: post #81
pbnjay wrote: post #69

On the one hand, I don't want this to happen to me either (but I'm more likely to retire somewhere accessible than the suburbs). But on the other, this whole situation just screams entitlement. They'd rather stay in their houses with all of their stuff, which even their own kids don't want [1]. Just imagine if they would actually move out of their houses: it would open up more housing, making it more affordable to ne…

Entitlement to what? Staying alive? Most old people don't have the money to move into a retirement home so where would they go if they sell their house? Even with high housing prices, the money from a home sale isn't going to net more than enough for 2-5 years in a retirement community. And yeah I've dealt with these issue for both my parents.

A small downtown apartment in a smaller city would be affordable, easier to clean and maintain, have elevator access so it doesn't require climbing stairs, will have transit options and amenities in walking distance. It's what young people want to see more of, but NIMBYism (often by aging people) constantly blocks that kind of development.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#86

Post by jonathanyc »

I think this is an awful situation, but at what point do we call seniors’ desires unreasonable? Is their want to stay in their suburban homes which are designed for cars really something the state should be concerned about when the working poor struggle to afford the subway?[1]

I think we should make relocation easy for the elderly who aren’t able to get around. I think it is terrible if they can’t move from their houses to places easier to get transportation from. But I really don’t see how this problem is more urgent and important or even independent of the general problem of people not being able to afford housing/transportation. Are we supposed to prioritize the elderly who already have houses over those who don’t?

1: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/06/16/when-people-cant-affo...

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#87

Post by goerz »

ghaff wrote: post #63
goerz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is (for the US) that trains are the optimal way to connect major cities, while buses are good for connecting smaller cities. Ideally, of course, one would have a dense rail network connecting even small towns, as Germany does, but that's never going to happen in the US.

>optimal way to connect major cities Major cities that are relatively close together. The Northeast Corridor works pretty well for the most part--at least the two ends of it do. The whole thing is a full day and probably costs more than a couple hour flight. Various city pairs also work but anything longer haul has to be for the experience (or avoiding flying) even if everything goes according to schedule. NY to Chic…

Sure, at some point the distances are just too great and flying is the only option

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#88

Post by RomanPushkin »

acchow wrote: post #66
_m8fo wrote: post #8

I always get an inkling that buses (like Bolt/Mega/PeterPan) + the existing highway + roads are superior and more scalable than any other type of transportation, dollar for dollar. Why do people push for rail? Self-driving cars obviously can enhance this (the bus idea), but I suspect they will create even more traffic if we insist on having 5 passenger cars be 75% empty. Buses are great because demand can be realloca…

Bus Rapid Transit is actually expanding rapidly. Even public-transit-anemic San Francisco has a BRT line under construction on Van Ness.

Hi from packed like hell bart car

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#89

Post by Pxtl »

Johnny555 wrote: post #24
_m8fo wrote: post #8

I always get an inkling that buses (like Bolt/Mega/PeterPan) + the existing highway + roads are superior and more scalable than any other type of transportation, dollar for dollar. Why do people push for rail? Self-driving cars obviously can enhance this (the bus idea), but I suspect they will create even more traffic if we insist on having 5 passenger cars be 75% empty. Buses are great because demand can be realloca…

That depends how many people you need to move and how often you need to move them. Rail has a high capital cost, but lower operating cost due to the fact that a single engineer (and maybe a conductor) can run a 2000 passenger train while a bus driver carries 50 - 100 people so you only need about 1/20th the number of operators. Another drawback of buses on the road is that unless they have dedicated lanes, they are s…

BRT in the English speaking world is hamstrung by the BRT creep as drivers demand their lanes back.

In Latin America, BRT is proven out as a cost-effective approach to mass transit.

Rail mainly offers comfort, a small incremental improvement in speed, lower manpower costs for drivers (offset by the massive capital costs) and greener running.

Comfort and speed should not be underestimated. There's a reason middle class people avoid buses.

Re: Once seniors are too old to drive, our transportation system fails them

#90

Post by erentz »

wvenable wrote: post #74
pbnjay wrote: post #69

On the one hand, I don't want this to happen to me either (but I'm more likely to retire somewhere accessible than the suburbs). But on the other, this whole situation just screams entitlement. They'd rather stay in their houses with all of their stuff, which even their own kids don't want [1]. Just imagine if they would actually move out of their houses: it would open up more housing, making it more affordable to ne…

I agree with your sentiments here but the other perspective is that you've worked your entire life, saved up, built up a wonderful home with all your belongings and now at the end of your life you have to give up everything you've worked for. Possibly your home is one of the few things that give you comfort and peace.

Well, yes. You can't have one without the other. You want good accessible living? That requires density and transit.

It's not like the last 70 years of terrible urban planning and lack of transit construction didn't happen during that "entire life" you speak of.

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