I suppose that at some point it's going to become economically feasible to make integrated BPUs (...Bitcoin Processing Units...) and obviate the ASICs.
One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
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Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Their NICs probably use off the shelf ICs from Broadcom or similar. In other words, Google would only handle PCB layout and up. Besides, modern analog ICs are usually fabbed using custom processes and in-house lower node fabs. Designing high-speed RF ICs is a huge effort, and as far as I know, Google does not have such capability.
IDK, they're still actively supporting the LLVM backend for Myricom's LANai chips, despite Myricom being sold off a few years ago. And the NICs don't really need custom high speed RF, the foundry has a SERDES block that'll work just fine for connecting to a phy.
Yes, but what I was saying is that Google likely does not design the PHY and/or other such low-level components.
I am trying to point out that designing a NIC is not equivalent to designing custom ICs, unless you are also designing the ICs used in the NIC.
Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apply that to energy efficiency research as well. The monetary incentives are too strong for it not to happen.
There would definitely be a first mover advantage. On the other hand, for most other VLSI applications, improved energy usage is a PERMANENT advantage: If e.g. Apple improves energy efficiency of Annn chips, it enables them to build better devices, even if the rest of the industry catches up. For Bitcoin, my understanding is that this is not the case, because any cost improvement in the industry will attract more min…
It's first mover advantage in the same way surviving is a first mover advantage. You're fine if you're profitable, but with constant improvements that won't be the case for long, unless you too start moving to new technology.
Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#84Note that Bitmain is mostly a hardware vendor, although they do mine using their own equipment. Most of these chips will be sold to other miners, not used by Bitmain themselves.
I was wondering about this, why do they sell them instead of mining them? They could sell the older model once the new chips they designed are ready no?
They're literally the ones selling shovels in the Bitcoin gold rush. Seems like a very good strategy. Plus, all the rumors they mine with the hardware a bit before selling, which I tend to believe because it's the obvious thing to do (you earn some BTC plus do the burn-in, which lets you catch defective units early).
Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Distribute porn. Play video games. Or some other thing that has subjective value that you might not agree with.
Not OP but that seems more useful. Even after digging for examples to prove a point, it's telling that this is all you can come up with.
> but that seems more useful.
> Subjective
There is no point in debating this. People are simply putting their money where their mouth is.
Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apply that to energy efficiency research as well. The monetary incentives are too strong for it not to happen.
I don't think it's possible to be energy efficient in a proof-of-work blockchain? Whatever energy saving you come up with will be negated by having to match competing miners' increasing throughput. If you are not running on 100% you are losing out?
You're thinking from the perspective of the miners.
From the perspective of the hardware manufacturers that's an advantage. If you're making the hardware and you come up with a 10% energy savings, everyone must now replace their old hardware or be left in the dust. Hardware manufacturers will make a killing. The prisoner's dilemma you are thinking of only applies to the miners, it's a benefit for the parties selling them the hardware.
Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#87Bitcoin was mistake
Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#88As a cryptocurrency-confused individual, I read articles like this and wonder how I'm supposed to assign any meaning to the "value" being created here, and by blockchain PoW in general. So this company is buying a bunch of wafers... He's converting the value of the wafers into value on blockchain, I guess? Because I can't help but interpret these things as "some people are wasting a lot of electricity, and you should…
Why are banknotes worth anything? They are just pieces of paper with some ink on them, after all. They are "worth" something, because people are willing to do work or trade you stuff for them. The same with mining bitcoin - instead of printing banknotes, you make a "thing" that you can then trade for services and objects, because people want to have that "thing"(this part is crucial). Most importantly, people are willing to trade that "thing" for real actual dollars, and hence the mining craze.
Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#89As a cryptocurrency-confused individual, I read articles like this and wonder how I'm supposed to assign any meaning to the "value" being created here, and by blockchain PoW in general. So this company is buying a bunch of wafers... He's converting the value of the wafers into value on blockchain, I guess? Because I can't help but interpret these things as "some people are wasting a lot of electricity, and you should…
> "some people are wasting a lot of electricity, and you should pay them for it!"
Hard question to answer. Is it a waste? Compared to having one centralised miner plodding along at zero difficulty, yes. But it depends what new tech/ideas comes out of all this blockchain stuff. Are particle accelerators a waste?
Re: One Bitcoin miner is buying 20,000 16nm wafers from TSMC per month
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
See, I had a different thought here. If anything, mining new bitcoins reduces the value of current ones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what's keeping the bubble from bursting is more dollars coming in - big miners aren't doing that, they don't buy their BTC. Unlike a clueless average Joe at home, they're running huge businesses, as this article suggests, so they're probably smarter. Does anyone know what the math here…
Mining new bitcoins makes transaction easier, which improves liquidity of current bitcoins. That certainly should have a positive effect on the theoretical value of a bitcoin.
> Mining new bitcoins makes transaction easier
No. As long as at least one person is brute forcing hashes, transactions will be processed at the same rate of about 10 tx/s.