Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own • Hacker News Board

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#241

Post by ak217 » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 1:24 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #157

thaumaturgy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to your comment, yes, they generally are; they're just using Hollywood accounting and referring to their profits as "excess earnings". "A study published in the May issue of Health Affairs revealed that in 2013, seven of the top ten most profitable hospitals in the United States were nonprofit hospitals, with each earning over $163 million in profits from patient care." https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/…

> Contrary to your comment, yes, they generally are; No, they're not. > they're just using Hollywood accounting and referring to their profits as "excess earnings". No, they aren't. Excess earnings are the correct technical term. Non-profit status, even in theory, has nothing to do with whether you earn more in revenue than you expend in costs , it has to do with whether there are stockholders or others who have a cl…

In my area, the non-profit (in name only) hospital system uses aggressive pricing, advertising, and takeover tactics to drive existing hospitals out of business, buy them out, dump unprofitable patient groups, recruit profitable ones, and then hold their medical care hostage while renegotiating higher reimbursement rates with the insurance company, with no accountability and giant compensation packages for their executives.

You can deny things all you want. The behavior of some "non-profit" hospital chains is out of line with what the public and the government considers appropriate for non-profits, and constitutes tax abuse.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#242

Post by refurb » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 7:56 PM UTC

thatcat wrote: post #238

refurb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an over simplification. Sure Medicare and Medicaid don't negotiate directly. Instead they impose discounts by fiat (no discount, no gov't business). Look up the 340B program and mandatory Medicaid rebates. They add up to huge discounts. In most cases Medicaid pays the lowest price of any customer and Medicare often pays the same as private insurers. It's a fallacy to say the gov't is getting screwed over by no…

To show that it is a fallacy you would need to compare the final drug costs after rebate with an average of foriegn govs that do negotiate rather than private insurers.

I'm cherry picking data, but the new hepatitis C drugs are cheaper in the US than the major EU countries.

As for a proper analysis of your question, I'm not sure that data is available. Net prices in the US are confidential.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#243

Post by seabird » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 8:29 PM UTC

roadnottaken wrote: post #188

steiger wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Brazil and generics for drugs which patents are expired are widely available, accounting for 30~40% of all drug market. If I'm not mistaken, we even broke patents in some cases (HIV drugs), which is cool.

Why is that cool? Intellectual property law is necessary for industries like Pharma. No IP, no new drugs.

I consider myself libertarian to the point where I'm willing to accept the uncomfortable extremes of the ideology that many people have issues accepting. I vehemently defend the right of a corporation or person to do shitty things that I do not necessarily agree with. However, abusing/commandeering regulatory processes to chokeslam competitors out of the market is a clear cut case of a business or individual using government power to engage in practices that would otherwise be impossible.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#244

Post by Fnoord » Wed, Jan 24, 2018, 10:39 AM UTC

roadnottaken wrote: post #188

steiger wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Brazil and generics for drugs which patents are expired are widely available, accounting for 30~40% of all drug market. If I'm not mistaken, we even broke patents in some cases (HIV drugs), which is cool.

Why is that cool? Intellectual property law is necessary for industries like Pharma. No IP, no new drugs.

Because with patents the IP eventually wears out, and IP = expensive drugs = less customers = more ill people = less productive society. I know, I know, the reality is more nuanced, but thus is the core of the counter-argument.