Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–79 of 79 posts

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#71

Post by classicsnoot »

mazelife wrote: post #34

When I hear someone (having, by their own description, a front-row seat for these events) reduce the civil-rights movement to this: “What I saw was a number of bad laws called into question and ultimately removed by acts of courage and wise restraint on the part of the victims of those laws.” …as though the white-supremacist, apartheid state that existed in the south at the time was nothing more than a few pesky laws…

Did you have a "front row seat" to the civil rights movement, or were you exposed to it by a university professor? I ask because from your use of words and barely restrained anger it appears that you deem that era as some sort of holy crusade against evil. It may be that (i wasn't there) but as i study it more it feels as if the the disenfranchisement of black folks was used as a political motivation to exert state control over lifestyle choices. I know that that sentence is blasphemy at my university, but the truth has a delicious way of ignoring sentiment.

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#72

Post by nugi »

matt4077 wrote: post #63
moneytide1 wrote: post #8

Here in the South, there is this air of hospitality. But there is an irony because everyone always rejects each others volunteer assistance out of pride for their ability to take care of themselves. I see charity directed towards me almost as an insult, or subtle attempted ownership, and there is this competitive air about needing less than others. But I suppose in more densely populated areas, there is more victimho…

"The South" is neither morally superior, nor more independent/self-reliant, etc.. Guess which states get more than twice the taxes they pay to the federal government back? Alabama, Mississippi, New Mexico, and other rural southern states are taken the handouts from California and New York: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vby1dJlsXmM/VtkJnusdGXI/AAAAAAAAJ... Guess which teenagers are incapable of not getting pregnant at 14…

So someone said something about the south, that does not make it okay to go on a bigoted diatribe. Wtf.

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#73

Post by arionhardison »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #53
Taniwha wrote: post #19

Bear in mind this was written in the very same year that the same guy traded on his own "victimhood" after being fired from his 20yr job for writing a homophobic rant.

When these people complain about others being special snowflakes and expecting special treatment, what they really mean is that they deserve special treatment.

I have always thought this to be true. I find it ironic when whites complain about programs like affirmative action when through laws such as Jim Crow, Red Lineing, etc... they have been receiving affirmative action for hundreds of years. What whites are really saying when they speak out against programs like that is: "We deserve to be the only protected class of people".

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#74

Post by shawndumas »

totalZero wrote: post #32
shawndumas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to HN. I love seeing new members expressing passionate views. Couple of quick questions: Do you always agree with every dictate of the UN? Does objectivity always garner the most votes?

You don't gain any ground by pointing out how long or how short the other user's account has been around. > Do you always agree with every dictate of the UN? This is irrelevant, unless you are trying to say that one either agrees with everything the UN says, or nothing. Clearly that is not the case; plenty of UN member nations consent on some issues, and dissent from others. The same can thus obviously be said of ind…

"You don't gain any ground by pointing out how long or how short the other user's account has been around."

You misjudge me. That was a sincere comment.

"They don't have to agree with every dictate to agree with some of the conclusions of the body."

Agreed; but then why bring the UN's decrees up at all? It'd be better to impartially argue why it is immoral instead of making an appeal to an authority that they themselves sometimes disagree with, no?

"[Y]ou probably have to say more to justify a lower-approval response as the right answer".

I picked it because it is verifiably neutral. My supposition is that the former attack on the account's partiality fails because the UN is neither always correct (as you agreed), and is most certainly not itself impartial (as I hope you would agree).

Mentioning that a biased party calls something illegal and that the truth is unpopular is a tangential response at best. What specific facts are being disputed?

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#75

Post by mercer »

classicsnoot wrote: post #71
mazelife wrote: post #34

When I hear someone (having, by their own description, a front-row seat for these events) reduce the civil-rights movement to this: “What I saw was a number of bad laws called into question and ultimately removed by acts of courage and wise restraint on the part of the victims of those laws.” …as though the white-supremacist, apartheid state that existed in the south at the time was nothing more than a few pesky laws…

Did you have a "front row seat" to the civil rights movement, or were you exposed to it by a university professor? I ask because from your use of words and barely restrained anger it appears that you deem that era as some sort of holy crusade against evil. It may be that (i wasn't there) but as i study it more it feels as if the the disenfranchisement of black folks was used as a political motivation to exert state c…

Could you elaborate on that? I'm very interested in that thought and I've heard similar statements before.

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#76

Post by Viliam1234 »

arionhardison wrote: post #73
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When these people complain about others being special snowflakes and expecting special treatment, what they really mean is that they deserve special treatment.

I have always thought this to be true. I find it ironic when whites complain about programs like affirmative action when through laws such as Jim Crow, Red Lineing, etc... they have been receiving affirmative action for hundreds of years. What whites are really saying when they speak out against programs like that is: "We deserve to be the only protected class of people".

> I find it ironic when whites complain ... they have been receiving affirmative action for hundreds of years.

There is a part in the article explaining how "they" who benefited from Jim Crow are not necessarily the same people as "they" who complain about being discriminated against. Not necessarily even descendants thereof.

Instead, you often get ironic situations like Jewish people who barely escaped Nazism while the rest of their families died in concentration camps, only to get yelled at for being white and allegedly benefiting from Jim Crow.

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#77

Post by moneytide1 »

matt4077 wrote: post #63
moneytide1 wrote: post #8

Here in the South, there is this air of hospitality. But there is an irony because everyone always rejects each others volunteer assistance out of pride for their ability to take care of themselves. I see charity directed towards me almost as an insult, or subtle attempted ownership, and there is this competitive air about needing less than others. But I suppose in more densely populated areas, there is more victimho…

"The South" is neither morally superior, nor more independent/self-reliant, etc.. Guess which states get more than twice the taxes they pay to the federal government back? Alabama, Mississippi, New Mexico, and other rural southern states are taken the handouts from California and New York: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vby1dJlsXmM/VtkJnusdGXI/AAAAAAAAJ... Guess which teenagers are incapable of not getting pregnant at 14…

I should not have said "everyone" or "always", and I agree with your first sentence - I do not wish for my statement to be seen as a declaration of superiority.

What I do wish to convey is my personal ideals, as a native of the region. I work for a rural ISP, and while there are some homes I enter that seem to validate these values, there are plenty that embody the statistics that you have linked.

Whenever I see these broken places, with all the evidence of obesity, addiction, smoking, drinking, etc that you have mentioned, I am bothered at how this came to be. Some of these people clearly do not care about anything more than having their working internet and Netflix (as well as the aforementioned vices) - trash all over the yards, cockroaches all around their networking gear, an abundance of unfinished projects, abandoned community gardens. Scatterbrained.

I want there to be order and community where it seems to be dissolving. This article caught my attention because I want to dissolve the crusade of victimhood that is growing like a tumor.

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#78

Post by [deleted] »

nugi wrote: post #72
matt4077 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The South" is neither morally superior, nor more independent/self-reliant, etc.. Guess which states get more than twice the taxes they pay to the federal government back? Alabama, Mississippi, New Mexico, and other rural southern states are taken the handouts from California and New York: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vby1dJlsXmM/VtkJnusdGXI/AAAAAAAAJ... Guess which teenagers are incapable of not getting pregnant at 14…

So someone said something about the south, that does not make it okay to go on a bigoted diatribe. Wtf.

[deleted]

Re: The Joys of Victimhood (1989)

#79

Post by moneytide1 »

nugi wrote: post #72
matt4077 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The South" is neither morally superior, nor more independent/self-reliant, etc.. Guess which states get more than twice the taxes they pay to the federal government back? Alabama, Mississippi, New Mexico, and other rural southern states are taken the handouts from California and New York: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vby1dJlsXmM/VtkJnusdGXI/AAAAAAAAJ... Guess which teenagers are incapable of not getting pregnant at 14…

So someone said something about the south, that does not make it okay to go on a bigoted diatribe. Wtf.

Notice it's been 4 days and he/she has yet to reply to us. There is no debate or conversation if there is no back&forth. We are not seeking interaction or exchanges - only to be heard.

The Internet enables quantity, not quality. Belittle some strangers, sit at the keyboard with a smug look, and possibly tell someone about it (with tongue, not fingers).

Routines like this for decades on end are what cause opioid, food, alcohol addiction, "etc etc".

It's more engaging to list problems instead of performing solutions?

Post reply on HN