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Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

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Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#421

Post by kristjansson »

c3534l wrote: post #241
mrmondo wrote: post #195

I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and security problems at hand. Some people are easily offended, some people easily offend, some people are direct, some people are indirect - get over it. What matters here is the quality of the code / workarounds that are being presented, by whom and what alternat…

> I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and security problems at hand. There wasn't much of a technical and security discussion in what was posted. Linus spent his time writing about his feelings and how hurt they were that someone did something he didn't like. Very little of substance or merit was com…

That’s a pretty uncharitable analysis of the situation. The point of the attack are Intel’s future intentions as implied by the patches, and the degree which those intentions are at odds with Intel’s announced guidance.

That seems like a very significant technical and security matter worth discussing, no matter the style of its delivery.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#422

Post by ratinacage »

> As a hack for existing CPUs, it's just about tolerable â as long as it > can die entirely by the next generation.

> Certainly it's a nasty hack, but hey â the world was on fire and in the > end we didn't have to just turn the datacentres off and go back to goat > farming, so it's not all bad.

Off-topic, but what is with the "â" in these sentences? Is that just some weird encoding error, or does it actually have meaning?

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#423

Post by JoeAltmaier »

workthrowaway27 wrote: post #370
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The internet is full of ranting commenters. They all have content of a sort. His don't deserve any more attention just because he's the subject of a hero-worship cult. Its actually possible to find thoughtful commentary on most any subject, without suffering jerks.

People only post his rants. Most of his replies are pretty benign.

So with only a little counseling he could be a normal human being...

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#424

Post by master_ant »

nolok wrote: post #74
dingo_bat wrote: post #15

I'm going to be honest, I need an ELI5 here. I know what the meltdown/spectre issues are, and kinda understand what retpoline is.

Big simplification: Proper way to fix an hardware bug like this, is that newer cpu gets protected by default, and they answer they are when queried. So you can ask the CPU "what's your status on bug X" and the cpu answers "i'm good, you don't need to do anything" (newer fixed chips), or "i know about it but was already built, and need microcode update/special behavior to protect myself" (current chips with microcode…

> In other words, intel is using its presence and weight to try and push a shitty solution, but one that is better for them marketing wise. Linus is flabbergasted to be treated like an idiot or a obedient drone that should apply such obvious abusive patches.

I see where the brashness comes from. Shady dealings on Intel's part.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#425

Post by pdpi »

crdoconnor wrote: post #411
pdpi wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See it from this angle: if Linus wasn't known for flipping his lid all the time, him flipping out _this_ time would be even more impactful. Overuse makes it progressively less remarkable. I wasn't even saying that his tone on this particular instance was excessive. I was responding to the general accusation that "PC culture will silence him". There's exactly one sentence I have issues with here ("the whole hardware i…

>See it from this angle: if Linus wasn't known for flipping his lid all the time, him flipping out _this_ time would be even more impactful. Overuse makes it progressively less remarkable. I don't. This is pretty much part of his brand. He's developed a reputation for flipping his lid and lambasting people who have always deserved it using entertainingly colorful language. That's why these rants still get to the top…

> Which is the sentence that got this rant on hacker news

And yet the title of the submission is "Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons". That's a good suggestion that the moron quote is not "what got this rant on hacker news". Perhaps it's on hacker news not because the form is inflammatory, but because the content is insightful.

Maybe—just maybe—the fact that the Linux project lead publicly accused Intel of not having their shit together is newsworthy and would end up on the front page of Hacker News no matter what tone it was written in, because that is newsworthy enough in and of itself.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#426

Post by kbenson »

sangnoir wrote: post #346
mrmondo wrote: post #195

I wish people in this thread would stop turning the discussion into a straw-man argument about Linus’s language and focus their attention to the technical and security problems at hand. Some people are easily offended, some people easily offend, some people are direct, some people are indirect - get over it. What matters here is the quality of the code / workarounds that are being presented, by whom and what alternat…

I'm fascinated by the lack of self-awareness in your comment: "I wish people in this thread would stop talking about X and talk about Y instead. Anyway, here are my thoughts on X." -_-

Actually, if you pay close attention, nothing is said about X, where X is Linus' language. It's a more general "these sitautions exist, but let's ignore them right now because there's something else to address which is more concrete."

You are correct though, in that the majority of the comment is spent at least dancing around that issue since little of substance was provided on the alternative that they suggest is more worthwhile.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#427

Post by cryptonector »

nolok wrote: post #74
dingo_bat wrote: post #15

I'm going to be honest, I need an ELI5 here. I know what the meltdown/spectre issues are, and kinda understand what retpoline is.

Big simplification: Proper way to fix an hardware bug like this, is that newer cpu gets protected by default, and they answer they are when queried. So you can ask the CPU "what's your status on bug X" and the cpu answers "i'm good, you don't need to do anything" (newer fixed chips), or "i know about it but was already built, and need microcode update/special behavior to protect myself" (current chips with microcode…

Linus also says that this shows Intel means never to fix Spectre2. Of course, that would only be their current position -- they could change their minds later. That strongly implies that the decision to disable by default is a marketing decision, but take this with salt -- it could also be a bad engineering decision.

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#428

Post by tome »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #408
tome wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The merits or demerits of that tone are another issue. I'm responding to the claim that Linus uses that style because it's the style of the country he comes from . I don't think that argument holds much water.

That isn't remotely what you initially said.

Your argument was

> From what I gather, some of this is cultural. His country of origin is just generally blunt and direct about things.

and my response was

> Regardless of the style in his country and language or origin he is writing in English, in public, for an international audience.

Which parts of what I said seem inconsistent to you?

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#429

Post by [deleted] »

Ygg2 wrote: post #284
pessimizer wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think that directness and honesty is identical to saying racist, sexist, and homophobic things. So "PC" becomes equivalent to "lying to make people like you."

The argument goes like this, the acerbic culture that grows around Linus is toxic towards female and (sexual/ethnic) minorities, because such contributor are disinclined to join projects where the lead can get verbally abusive. From what I've gathered the findings are based on real data.

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons.”

#430

Post by kbenson »

And here[1] is Woodhouse's coherent latest reply as of a couple hours ago on the issue, which explains for all us in the peanut gallery (his words, which I think are spot on) exactly what this is about, why it's included, how it actually affects the situation, why it was put forth at all, etc.

It appears much less sinister than Linus was insinuating, but Linus has yet to reply.

1: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1801.2/05282.html

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