The CLARA Method of De-Escalation • Hacker News Board

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#61

Post by vinceguidry » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

jnordwick wrote: post #59

vinceguidry wrote: post #42

Occasionally when dealing with irrational people I have found it useful to match their energy level. So if they're yelling, you start raising your voice too. And you take whatever it is they're saying seriously . And if you have an objection, you state that objection. Then you continue the argument until the raised voices seem pointless and you both just calm down. I had to learn this technique when I was living with…

> friends that had undiagnosed and untreated personality disorders So you diagnosed multiple of your friends as having personality disorders? I'm guessing your not a psychologist. > match their energy level This is the exact opposite of what you should be doing. You are always to stay below their level to diffuse the situation. If their energy level goes down, you lower yours further. You literally diagnosed your fri…

If you had witnessed the interactions you would not have come to that conclusion. They beat themselves up, they didn't need me to do it. When someone is irrational, their verbal violence cuts in both directions.

I am not a psychologist but I see one every week. I did not consider personality disorders until the person in question brought it up, and I had a lot more experience with such things later in life. All I knew at the time was that they were not responding to calmness and I needed to try something different.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#62

Post by vinceguidry » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #51

vinceguidry wrote: post #42

Occasionally when dealing with irrational people I have found it useful to match their energy level. So if they're yelling, you start raising your voice too. And you take whatever it is they're saying seriously . And if you have an objection, you state that objection. Then you continue the argument until the raised voices seem pointless and you both just calm down. I had to learn this technique when I was living with…

One of my sales mentors shared this story with me, but I'm not sure where he heard it originally. Basically what you said, if someone comes to you angry about something, be angrier but not at them . In all but the most extreme cases they end up trying to calm you down. His example was a tailor of very high-end clothes, think tuxedos that cost as much as most folks' cars, custom women's jackets for formal events, etc.…

I've deployed this approach at jobs before with tempestuous bosses. I can assure you that you don't need to reserve it for egregious outbursts. These sorts think of anger as energizing, any charged-up display commands respect from them.

Eventually they start thinking of you as their protege.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#63

Post by drsim » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

b6 wrote: post #13

drsim wrote: post #8

I'd be interested to see how this works in dealing with bad reviews. They often feel disenfranchised/slighted/wronged and not a few, angry. I've been pretty effective in dealing with bad reviews for our app and lots of this method resonates with me. As I'm systematizing the company a key area is putting in a process and tools for the team to handle bad reviews rather than me. So far however, it seems each situation a…

Regarding bad reviews, I feel for you. I am close to someone who is a good person, but seems unable to stop himself from leaving scathing reviews. If it's any consolation, I really believe that 1) trauma he experienced at a young age contributes to this behavior and 2) if he knew the person who produced the product and understood the difficulties they faced during its production, he would not do it.

> if he knew the person who produced the product and understood the difficulties they faced during its production, he would not do it

So true for many.

One thing I always try to do is go out of my way to make that personal connection. Anonymous hit-and-run reviews are, in my opinion, cowardly. If you're going to scrutinise something publically you should be open to talk to the creator of what you're scrutinizing.

Speaking to these kind of users can be invaluable or it can be an awkward hour of disagreeing.

Either way, putting a human face on it and letting them know where I'm coming from and the impact of their review has yielded good results.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#64

Post by drsim » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 4:44 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #19

b6 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding bad reviews, I feel for you. I am close to someone who is a good person, but seems unable to stop himself from leaving scathing reviews. If it's any consolation, I really believe that 1) trauma he experienced at a young age contributes to this behavior and 2) if he knew the person who produced the product and understood the difficulties they faced during its production, he would not do it.

This is a really odd statement. I occasionally leave scathing reviews if I've had a genuinely bad experience. Most recently it was with a smart speaker (the UE Blast) that was obviously rushed to a Christmas 2017 release with major software issues that, according to their forums, are hitting many customers with no or poor response from the vendor. As a software engineer I can imagine the circumstances around the rush…

(This does not sound like your experience but) I'm very surprised when a bad reviewer has a resolvable problem, makes no attempt to contact support and simply writes a bad review.

Or, sends a support email and 30 seconds later writes a bad review.

Bad reviews sometimes indicate not a willingness to resolve a problem but wanting to shout and be heard.

I hear this often with restaurant reviews too. Something is wrong with the food but they quietly seethe rather than grabbing their waiter, waiting until the taxis home to write a scathing review. How odd.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#65

Post by colanderman » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #51

vinceguidry wrote: post #42

Occasionally when dealing with irrational people I have found it useful to match their energy level. So if they're yelling, you start raising your voice too. And you take whatever it is they're saying seriously . And if you have an objection, you state that objection. Then you continue the argument until the raised voices seem pointless and you both just calm down. I had to learn this technique when I was living with…

One of my sales mentors shared this story with me, but I'm not sure where he heard it originally. Basically what you said, if someone comes to you angry about something, be angrier but not at them . In all but the most extreme cases they end up trying to calm you down. His example was a tailor of very high-end clothes, think tuxedos that cost as much as most folks' cars, custom women's jackets for formal events, etc.…

I would worry about coming across as sarcastic. (And I mean me personally, I don't have a good poker face.)

Or must one not worry about the type of person who would become angry over a mis-sewn button picking up on sarcasm?

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#66

Post by topbarcolor » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #51

vinceguidry wrote: post #42

Occasionally when dealing with irrational people I have found it useful to match their energy level. So if they're yelling, you start raising your voice too. And you take whatever it is they're saying seriously . And if you have an objection, you state that objection. Then you continue the argument until the raised voices seem pointless and you both just calm down. I had to learn this technique when I was living with…

One of my sales mentors shared this story with me, but I'm not sure where he heard it originally. Basically what you said, if someone comes to you angry about something, be angrier but not at them . In all but the most extreme cases they end up trying to calm you down. His example was a tailor of very high-end clothes, think tuxedos that cost as much as most folks' cars, custom women's jackets for formal events, etc.…

> (generally reserved for the most egregiously ridiculous displays of anger)

On the other end of that spectrum you have Monty Python's "The Restaurant Sketch".

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#67

Post by colanderman » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

madaxe_again wrote: post #29

crypt1d wrote: post #11

I can totally relate to this from both perspectives (being pissed off at someone, and trying to calm somebody pissed off) and seeing how both approaches work/dont work. Not too long ago I opened a dispute with Ryanair about what I thought was quite obvious their own issue for which I should be refunded (I provided screenshots and everything). I've reached out to their customer support expecting to raise a simple issu…

I’ve found, much to my chagrin, that anger seems to be a much better way to achieve what you want than being pleasant and diplomatic. Cases in point: ecommerce retailer offers next day shipping, but nothing arrives. I chase. “Oh it’s out of stock”. “It said in stock on your site... i’ll have X instead”. A week later, still nothing. “Oh it’s in the post”. A week later, still nothing, still “in the post”. I ask for a r…

I've found that contacting directors and explaining politely, but bluntly, why you are upset at the service their employees are providing, works wonders. No need to be rude.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#68

Post by vinceguidry » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

colanderman wrote: post #65

pc86 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my sales mentors shared this story with me, but I'm not sure where he heard it originally. Basically what you said, if someone comes to you angry about something, be angrier but not at them . In all but the most extreme cases they end up trying to calm you down. His example was a tailor of very high-end clothes, think tuxedos that cost as much as most folks' cars, custom women's jackets for formal events, etc.…

I would worry about coming across as sarcastic. (And I mean me personally, I don't have a good poker face.) Or must one not worry about the type of person who would become angry over a mis-sewn button picking up on sarcasm?

The weird, 'magic' thing about this is that the capacity to be unreasonably angry about something means that you take it very seriously. You won't detect that someone else isn't taking it half as seriously unless you were also only deploying anger as a technique. The anger itself blinds you. And if you weren't really that angry, well you just got caught out.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#69

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 6:43 PM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #53

amelius wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's difficult to ask when you are kicked out of the session with a "have a nice day, please rate this conversation". Come on, just give me a link to click on or an email address.

When I get connected I always take a note of the persons name, and ask for it if it not given upfront.

[deleted]

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#70

Post by jwilk » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

topbarcolor wrote: post #66

pc86 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my sales mentors shared this story with me, but I'm not sure where he heard it originally. Basically what you said, if someone comes to you angry about something, be angrier but not at them . In all but the most extreme cases they end up trying to calm you down. His example was a tailor of very high-end clothes, think tuxedos that cost as much as most folks' cars, custom women's jackets for formal events, etc.…

> (generally reserved for the most egregiously ridiculous displays of anger) On the other end of that spectrum you have Monty Python's "The Restaurant Sketch".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdzqTGmEcZE