Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 200 posts

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#91

Post by ythn »

mbrumlow wrote: post #72

This seems to be a growing trend, mostly in journalism; Blame technology. Just recently there was a article going around about how Google's search algorithm was at fault of keeping two sisters apart. And entire multi page write up on how our lives are at the whims of computers and algorithms. Then to be told that the one sister could not find the other because she changes her name online to protect her identity. Now…

"Guns don't kill people, people do"

"Code doesn't cause people to be arrested, people do"

True in both cases, but also true in both cases that guns/code are used as enablers of the evil deeds.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#92

Post by mrtksn »

Rjevski wrote: post #3

FTFY: a shitty government is putting people in jail. Even if we ignore the horrible government and bullshit reasons why they're considering installing an encrypted chat app a "crime", they should at least use proper evidence for the convictions, like a dump of the phone's memory with the chat app installed on it, and not a simple DNS lookup/HTTP request to the chat app's domain.

That's misrepresentation of the situation, the crime is not installing an app(nobody is sentenced for the crime of using an app) but being a member of an organisation that is deemed illegal and the app is considered evidence for membership as it was members exclusive app. Think of it as if being an Uber driver was illegal, then having the drivers app can constitute as a good reason for suspicion of you being Uber driver and you might be held until you receive a sentence or cleared from wrongdoing.

The problem here was that the Turkish authorities were "a bit too liberal" on what constitute of using the App in question, that is, they mistakenly assumed that making HTTP request to the App's server is a good indicator of being a user.

Unfortunately this is the way that the Turkish government operates since many years, they first lock you in and you fight back for years until you prove your innocence. What's even worse is that you can't really get good compensation for it, you just suck it up and move on.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#93

Post by ErikVandeWater »

mbrumlow wrote: post #72

This seems to be a growing trend, mostly in journalism; Blame technology. Just recently there was a article going around about how Google's search algorithm was at fault of keeping two sisters apart. And entire multi page write up on how our lives are at the whims of computers and algorithms. Then to be told that the one sister could not find the other because she changes her name online to protect her identity. Now…

Not to reply to your point, but I found an interesting discussion when reading up on your use of the idiom "for the worst": https://writingexplained.org/worse-or-worst-difference

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#94

Post by boosting6889 »

danso wrote: post #14
Rjevski wrote: post #3

FTFY: a shitty government is putting people in jail. Even if we ignore the horrible government and bullshit reasons why they're considering installing an encrypted chat app a "crime", they should at least use proper evidence for the convictions, like a dump of the phone's memory with the chat app installed on it, and not a simple DNS lookup/HTTP request to the chat app's domain.

Exactly this. People are apparently being jailed for having accessed or simply pinged a forbidden IP/server -- which seemingly could be caused by receiving an email with a hidden img tag, or visiting a website with a hidden iframe.

It happens in the US too. Any site could have 1x1 iframes loaded with nude pictures of people under 18. If your IP happens to be caught up in their investigation, your computers will get seized, they’ll see you accessed the forbidden pages, and you’re basically done for, especially if you can’t afford a good attorney. Nobody is giving an accused pedophile the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#95

Post by wu-ikkyu »

Banthum wrote: post #52
yorby wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that the American government had the worst ratio of free citizens/incarcerated citizens ...

America has a high ratio. To call it 'worst' is a value judgment and not an objective statement, any more than saying the abortion or divorce rate is better or worse.

>To call it 'worst' is a value judgment and not an objective statement

Why does that matter here?

The very laws which a large % of them broke (drug laws) are not based on objective statements.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#96

Post by amckinlay »

Rjevski wrote: post #3

FTFY: a shitty government is putting people in jail. Even if we ignore the horrible government and bullshit reasons why they're considering installing an encrypted chat app a "crime", they should at least use proper evidence for the convictions, like a dump of the phone's memory with the chat app installed on it, and not a simple DNS lookup/HTTP request to the chat app's domain.

And this is a government we're going to rescue if they're ever under attack.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#97

Post by candiodari »

Waterluvian wrote: post #59
mseebach wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article's tacit acknowledgment of the legitimacy of arresting people for having had the app installed at all is pretty off-colour as well.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but I often see reporting attempt to speak about something in the context from which it originates. An opinion piece can come later about how unbelievable it is that they do this to begin with.

Many things about Turkey are incredulous. Turkey used to be a bastion of secularism, in fact the only bastion of secularism among muslims (and it still is, at least in terms of mindshare).

And yet turkey now has a president ... that obviously gained the better part of his power through a false-flag attack (the "coup d'etat" that "somehow" managed to fail to capture even a single government official or building).

And you just can't believe how bad it gets ... They're arresting everyone who supposedly had anything (right down to IP addresses) to do with, oh, lots of things. Gulenists, Kurds, the Press, LGBT, ...

And then people in the US reply "but that's thousands, no, tens of thousands of people".

Yes. Yes it is [1].

And you just can't believe how bad this guy is:

(about the Armenian genocide) "a muslim cannot commit genocide"

(about women) "Our religion [Islam] has defined a position for women [in society]: motherhood. You cannot explain this to feminists because they don't accept the concept of motherhood."

He, and his family, personally organised oil sales on behalf of islamic state, including to the US

"We will rip out the roots of the Twitter service"

He orchestrated physical attacks against newspapers.

The worst of it is, truth be told he has flip-flopped on just about every issue, including the ones mentioned right above here, and doesn't seem all that coherent at all. But unscrupulous is a word that just falls short : the guy is accused to have organised, in some cases systematic, physical attacks against Turks in Germany, the US and elsewhere for being perceived as being against him.

I can't imagine how threatened Turks must feel.

[1] http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/14/europe/turkey-failed-coup-...

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#98

Post by ythn »

simonh wrote: post #69
lovelearning wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. I find it inexplicable that while our species has progressed so much after 6000 years of civilization, one thing that doesn't seem to have changed is the desire of large sections of people to be led by oppressive maniacs. It's almost like many of us just love handing away our freedoms. Have sociologists studied this phenomenon?

I think it’s that many of us just love handing away other people’s freedoms. ‘They’ are the ones we’re oppressing, ‘they’ deserve it. It’s seen as an easy shortcut to oppress ‘them’. Then you get the Syrian Christians who voted for Trump in droves because if his anti-Muslim stance, but who’s communities are being gutted by deportations because it turns out all the laws being used against Syrian Muslim immigrants appl…

How many people have been deported under Trump? I'm having trouble finding any statistics on it

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#99

Post by gazorpazorpaway »

lovelearning wrote: post #27
integricho wrote: post #5

I find it very frustrating to read about such oppressive regimes. It fills me with anger, I cannot help myself, I just hate injustice.

Me too. I find it inexplicable that while our species has progressed so much after 6000 years of civilization, one thing that doesn't seem to have changed is the desire of large sections of people to be led by oppressive maniacs. It's almost like many of us just love handing away our freedoms. Have sociologists studied this phenomenon?

In Turkey as in many other countries it's a case of a person takes control over the country through populistic propaganda, then censor all news. The only news available is the government approved news about how great the great leader is. The population doesn't speak English so even if they could get a hold of uncensored news from the outside, they couldn't read it. Absolutely everything that has to do with trying to protest the government or critique them, or being connected to anyone that do, will lead to prison on terrorist charges.

It's not that people want to live under oppressive maniacs, it's that the oppressive maniac is depicted as a wonderful great leader that fights for the small people like them and will make their country great again. So even if you hold fair elections, a huge chunk of people think the oppressive maniac seems like a pretty okay guy and will vote for him again.

Re: Thousands of Turks accused of using Bylock app despite never having used it

#100

Post by zamazingo »

mseebach wrote: post #19
Rjevski wrote: post #3

FTFY: a shitty government is putting people in jail. Even if we ignore the horrible government and bullshit reasons why they're considering installing an encrypted chat app a "crime", they should at least use proper evidence for the convictions, like a dump of the phone's memory with the chat app installed on it, and not a simple DNS lookup/HTTP request to the chat app's domain.

The article's tacit acknowledgment of the legitimacy of arresting people for having had the app installed at all is pretty off-colour as well.

I am guessing the author would get arrested without that tacit acknowledgement.

> ... is a CBC News correspondent based in Istanbul.

Post reply on HN