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Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

theguardian.com

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Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#141

Post by spystath »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #84
mabbo wrote: post #4

The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…

Just to put some numbers on this, in Greece this summer a pack of 30 g. of rolling tobacco cost €7.20. For comparison, in the UK, the same costs £13.60 or €15.42 - so more than double the money. As others have reported in this thread the tax on tobacco is 70% in Greece. I'm not sure what it is in the UK. The detail to take into account is that Greece produces tobacco locally. So it's going to be cheaper. Bottom line-…

Given that the average wage in Greece is roughly half (or even less) that of the UK I would say they are comparable.

Although I partially agree; it's not only the price that affects the consumption of tobacco. It's could also be that there is nothing cool about smoking nowadays.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#142

Post by DanBC »

tmnvix wrote: post #113
DanBC wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with psychosis tend to die 20 years earlier than the general population. One of the reason is that people with some types of psychosis smoke a lot. They smoke more cigarettes, and smoke them more deeply, than they general population. If they're medicated the hydrocarbons in burnt tobacco interact with antipsychotic medication, making it less effective, meaning they need more meds. And antipsychotic meds can be…

> People with psychosis tend to die 20 years earlier than the general population. One of the reason is that people with some types of psychosis smoke a lot. Is this a significant reason relative to suicide amongst psychotics?

Yes.

In England about 4,500 deaths by suicide per year. There are about 55million people in the UK, and about 1% of them have psychosis, so there are roughly 550000 people with psychosis.

The deaths by suicide, while both tragic and preventable, don't change the average lifespan much.

It's the heart attacks and strokes and diabetes that are the biggest effect on lifespan.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#143

Post by sergers »

scruple wrote: post #78
sergers wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increased taxes don't have effect on people with poor life choices. I have a few colleagues who are way behind paycheck to paycheck, but will always have smokes. They would rather have a pack or 2 and skip meals not being able to afford them (packs costing ~$13 cad).

My brother in law drifts in and out of homelessness and maintains about a pack a day habit. He collects SSI, and has some meager savings from when he was working last summer, and most of that money goes to cigarettes, fast food, and whatever else he self-medicates with. I've never asked him but I wouldn't be surprised if he got them off of the black market, considering that he frequents places like Skid Row and the s…

I am not from Greece, so can't comment, but I agree with you and bet it's happening.

Definitely has been happening here as long as I can remember.

People pickup cartons coming back from US trips and resell them,, you can get it at less than half price locally. Cartons can be had for 30-40$ usd at duty free. I have coworkers who travel 90%, they always bring back cartons and charge $20 markup.

Bringing cartons across from another province as they have less taxes.

Buying from the "native reserves" as it's tax free.

Buy from Asian convenience store, cause they are importing illegally at a lower cost.

Heck, not sure how easy u can pass customs nowadays, but you could buy cartons online from europe 5-10 years ago with ease illegally.

There's many options.

Smoking is a convenient crutch for people addicted, it's crazy that something that can make you feel like shit, but can also temporarily make you feel better. (Mindset of a smoker... I could chain smoke, feel like crap. My next thought is, maybe I should have another one).

If anyone wants to quit, I suggest the following as mandatory Reading: Alan Carr: easy way quit smoking (many iterations on title).

This is a magnificent book that has helped many people I know, including myself.

Helps you understand the addiction, the hold it has over you (which is mostlt mental), and helps put you in the right mind frame to quit.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#144

Post by Hasz »

yesenadam wrote: post #130
Hasz wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't include pleasure in my list of objective positive things. "What I enjoy and what you enjoy are probably different sets." is relevant insofar as pleasure is subjective, which is the opposite of objective. When I wrote the original comment, I was not specific enough too include objective, which I should have. Didn't downvote you by the way.

Ok thanks. :-) Probably no-one has ever thought that everyone enjoys exactly the same things. It's like if you're arguing with someone and the other person says "2+2=4" apparently to support their argument, it would just make you wonder what their argument is, that they bring in 2+2=4 as supporting evidence. It's still puzzling why bring that in, but it seems you have an unusual idea of subjective/objective, as the o…

I'm not sure where the equivocation comes into play. You can fully disregard the

"There's absolutely nothing positive about smoking (including the smoker's pleasure)"

and replace it with

"There's absolutely nothing positive about smoking (not including the smoker's pleasure)"

If the statements were intended to stand side by side, that would be an equivocation. But they are not meant to stand side by side, nor would it make much sense to do so.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#146

Post by scruple »

sergers wrote: post #143
scruple wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother in law drifts in and out of homelessness and maintains about a pack a day habit. He collects SSI, and has some meager savings from when he was working last summer, and most of that money goes to cigarettes, fast food, and whatever else he self-medicates with. I've never asked him but I wouldn't be surprised if he got them off of the black market, considering that he frequents places like Skid Row and the s…

I am not from Greece, so can't comment, but I agree with you and bet it's happening. Definitely has been happening here as long as I can remember. People pickup cartons coming back from US trips and resell them,, you can get it at less than half price locally. Cartons can be had for 30-40$ usd at duty free. I have coworkers who travel 90%, they always bring back cartons and charge $20 markup. Bringing cartons across…

Believe me, I know. I had a pack a day habit for nearly a decade. It's horrible and I'm very glad that I got free from it. When I first started smoking, I didn't care how shitty it made me feel. Over time, I wanted to quit but was in the thick of it. In the end, I quit because I met my then-girlfriend now-wife and she wasn't having it. I appreciate the book recommendation, I'll be sure to keep it in the back of my mind if it ever comes up with friends/family/coworkers/whatever.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#147

Post by brokenmachine »

vixen99 wrote: post #140
cmurf wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murder is a disproportionate response. Making it legal to throw or smear poop on someone's face would be approximately equal in my mind to public smoking. You want to smoke? Fine, control the entire byproduct so it doesn't enter the personal space of others. Oh you can't control it? Sounds like you're out of control. Well I can get all out of control too, here's a poopstache. Yes this would be assault with a biohazar…

Strong rhetoric but do you have the same view about driving a vehicle that has noxious emissions (and we're only recently discovering quite how noxious) that inevitably enter the personal space of others? Can we assume you don't have one?

Meh, that's a stawman argument.

We grudgingly accept the emissions from cars because of their other usefulness.

If we could make cars with no emissions and no other negatives, gas-powered vehicles would surely be outlawed very soon.

Smoking has no useful purpose and frankly it's ridiculous that some people feel they are entitled to put other people's health at risk because of their own addiction.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#148

Post by brokenmachine »

kodablah wrote: post #83
cmurf wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Murder is a disproportionate response. Making it legal to throw or smear poop on someone's face would be approximately equal in my mind to public smoking. You want to smoke? Fine, control the entire byproduct so it doesn't enter the personal space of others. Oh you can't control it? Sounds like you're out of control. Well I can get all out of control too, here's a poopstache. Yes this would be assault with a biohazar…

Of course you can control it. In many locations it is effectively controlled where only those wanting to have poop thrown in their face will and the rest can go on without it since the vast majority of zones are poop-throwing-free (in the places I am referencing). In the town I live in, smoking is only allowed in adult-only establishments. And those allowing smoking are the minority because many business owners reali…

"Best of all worlds" in your opinion is a world where people have to deal with unnecessary and unwanted toxic gases in only a minority of establishments?

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#149

Post by brokenmachine »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #119
perseusprime11 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still cant understand why we cant simply ban them.

Fundamental civil rights? It's wrong to punish someone for anything beyond harming other people's

> We now know that 53,800 people die every year from secondhand smoke exposure.

http://www.no-smoke.org/getthefacts.php?id=13 - the first link I found from a google search for "secondhand smoke kills how many"

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#150

Post by brokenmachine »

hokus wrote: post #137

People fail to see how stupid it is to punish smokers with taxes. It would be a wonderful formula if we all made the same amount of money. When financial life is total shit one might be depressed to the point that giving up smoking is impossible. Likewise, if one has a lot of money in the bank a pack of smokes would have to cost something like 1000 Euro before one would start to notice it. Some could even afford 30 k…

I couldn't care less about smokers health. I just want to breathe fresh air that isn't toxic and doesn't smell horrible so I wish you would go more than 200 meters away, or preferably smoked yourself to death far away from me.
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