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Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

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Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#11

Post by sumeno »

bitL wrote: post #9

Real-world: - you increase value; your bosses team up with each other and claim the credit; you might even get booed for some minor deficiencies whereas they will be boasting about their achievements - you are generous and do non-AGPL based open-source; parasites are waiting in the open, incorporate your code to their commercial offering, never paying you anything; your bonus will be rude complaints about bugs in you…

You must have worked at some really terrible companies. While I don't doubt this is the case at some places the places I've worked haven't been like this at all.

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#12

Post by WalterBright »

bitL wrote: post #9

Real-world: - you increase value; your bosses team up with each other and claim the credit; you might even get booed for some minor deficiencies whereas they will be boasting about their achievements - you are generous and do non-AGPL based open-source; parasites are waiting in the open, incorporate your code to their commercial offering, never paying you anything; your bonus will be rude complaints about bugs in you…

If you're doing work-for-hire, the company implicitly owns whatever it is you achieve and was paid for. If you want to own it, start your own company!

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#13

Post by maxxxxx »

nawitus wrote: post #3

"If you want to increase your compensation over time, continue to put yourself in a position where you can deliver the most value." This assumes an efficient market. In the real world, however, value of a software engineer's output is really difficult to measure. Indirect value (like helping a team member) is even more difficult to measure than direct value (like implementing features or solving bugs and so on).

What it comes down to is perceived value. Only stuff that gets noticed by the people who make salary decisions will help you.

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#14

Post by bitL »

sumeno wrote: post #11
bitL wrote: post #9

Real-world: - you increase value; your bosses team up with each other and claim the credit; you might even get booed for some minor deficiencies whereas they will be boasting about their achievements - you are generous and do non-AGPL based open-source; parasites are waiting in the open, incorporate your code to their commercial offering, never paying you anything; your bonus will be rude complaints about bugs in you…

You must have worked at some really terrible companies. While I don't doubt this is the case at some places the places I've worked haven't been like this at all.

I worked for the companies considered "the best" in our industry with Glassdoor rating >4.5 at various stages of their lifecycle. This was happening everywhere, with singular pockets of progressive parts of company that were immune to that. At worse companies you can directly observe sexual or financial relations between managers and subordinates and resulting quick path to success as well, demoralizing the rest. Tech workers are quite often blind and don't perceive it but it's like aliasing in photographs - once you see it, it cannot be unseen.

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#15

Post by virgilp »

throwawayjava wrote: post #7

> This is why I struggle with scenarios where people discuss pay and work without considering value. Counter-point: firms exist. If I'm the one figuring out how to create value, why the hell are the C suite, middle managers, and investors getting 99% of the profits? So no, in the context of a large firm, it's definitely NOT an engineer's job to figure out how their skills align with market demand. And that's the whol…

But, to continue your analogy - if you're asking me advice on how to make ends meet, then it absolutely is my business to chide you for the expensive lattes you buy daily.

The point discussed in the article is very valid: you need to be perceived as "delivering value" - otherwise, your compensation will suffer. That's the whole reason why you earn well working in finance - not because "only the smartest make it there", but because you're very close to the money. The money a quant brings in can be connected to him with a very short line.

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#16

Post by zzzcpan »

This is really dishonest and disrespectful to people. Most companies are dictatorships, where all of the profits that come from maximizing value to customers do not go to employees. Employees have absolutely no say in it whatsoever and in fact are paid for their time for the sole purpose of not sharing profits with them.

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#17

Post by pricetag »

> This is why engineering career ladders start to layer in responsibilities for things that a single individual can’t accomplish themselves. This doesn’t mean you need to become a manager, but it does mean you need to look beyond yourself to maximize the value you’re able to bring to the people who are ultimately paying you.

This is where I am right now. I've been a dev professionally for 2.5 years, and I'm looking ahead to what it will take to become a lead and eventually a senior engineer. I notice other senior engineers around me continuously providing value to those other than themselves: in the form of contributing more documentation, directing and organizing design meetings, and in general taking time to gather others to solve a recurring technical issue org-wide, once and for all.

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#18

Post by Kalium »

bitL wrote: post #9

Real-world: - you increase value; your bosses team up with each other and claim the credit; you might even get booed for some minor deficiencies whereas they will be boasting about their achievements - you are generous and do non-AGPL based open-source; parasites are waiting in the open, incorporate your code to their commercial offering, never paying you anything; your bonus will be rude complaints about bugs in you…

Don't forget:

- you look around for growth opportunities, and learn that your company hasn't promoted any engineers in the past year

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#19

Post by Nokinside »

bitL wrote: post #9

Real-world: - you increase value; your bosses team up with each other and claim the credit; you might even get booed for some minor deficiencies whereas they will be boasting about their achievements - you are generous and do non-AGPL based open-source; parasites are waiting in the open, incorporate your code to their commercial offering, never paying you anything; your bonus will be rude complaints about bugs in you…

> you are generous and do non-AGPL based open-source ; parasites are waiting in the open

This is not you being generous or them being parasite. BSD type license is not "hint hint GPL type honor code". You need to communicate what you want from others trough the license.

If you use non-AGPL or non GPL open license that's a sign that others can exploit your work for commercial purposes without contributing back money or code.

If you use BSD type license and others exploit it like it was intended to, don't complain. If someone uses AGPL or GPL, but you need the code don't complain. Offer money or code.

Re: Fellow Engineers: This is where your money comes from

#20

Post by avip »

I'm pretty surprised to read this. I did not observe any statistically significant correlation between "creating value" and "compensation". The examples are so overwhelming I feel it's on the OP to exemplify his rather false assertion:

  - Big corps pay loads of cash to research centers that provide exactly zero value to customer.
  - If you don't man up and negotiate no one will bump your compensation just because you're "creating value"
  - Creation of value is so vague a term it's practically meaningless
This goes on and on.
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