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Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

arstechnica.com

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Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#61

Post by abakker »

fermienrico wrote: post #26
jakebasile wrote: post #15

I'm legitimately worried about the long term future of my hobby (PC gaming) at this point. Prices like this have a cascade effect because when less people can afford to build a PC and/or upgrade there's less incentive for developers and publishers to spend time on the platform. Consoles are shielded by the ability of Sony and Microsoft to take losses which will be absorbed by online fees and higher game prices but no…

Gamers are complaining about why can't nVidia just ramp up their production. Having worked in a Fab and an assembly factory, there is a tremendous amount of coordination that needs to happen. Let's forget the business aspects for a moment - in order to ramp up production, it is not just building more lines. Silicon industry supply chains are mind bogglingly complex from oil-free-air supply hardware, etching chemicals…

It is worth noting that nVidia contributed as much revenue to TSMC as Bitmain did last quarter. A key reason nVidia can't just ramp up is that other customers might be able to pay more than them for priority.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3323673-tsmc-expects-iphone-sh...

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#62

Post by sundvor »

jakebasile wrote: post #29
fermienrico wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gamers are complaining about why can't nVidia just ramp up their production. Having worked in a Fab and an assembly factory, there is a tremendous amount of coordination that needs to happen. Let's forget the business aspects for a moment - in order to ramp up production, it is not just building more lines. Silicon industry supply chains are mind bogglingly complex from oil-free-air supply hardware, etching chemicals…

> Gamers are complaining about why can't nVidia just ramp up their production. I don't see too much of that in gaming circles. It's understood that it would be risky as crypto will crash sooner than later. The anger in the PC community is almost exclusively directed at miners. Threads about it pop up on the daily, but what can we do? We could lobby NVIDIA/AMD to somehow implement restrictions on what the Gaming SKUs…

If the mining was to crash hard, it'd be a fantastic time to be a gamer with 2nd market GPU offerings. ;)

Also, I bought my own 1080TI last May and have had it mining when PC not in use. It's already earned itself back, potentially speaking (haven't actually sold anything yet for real dollars). A single card isn't enough to bring anything solid in, but it's at least a foot in the door kind of thing, especially for the fun factor.

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#63

Post by fellellor »

jakebasile wrote: post #15

I'm legitimately worried about the long term future of my hobby (PC gaming) at this point. Prices like this have a cascade effect because when less people can afford to build a PC and/or upgrade there's less incentive for developers and publishers to spend time on the platform. Consoles are shielded by the ability of Sony and Microsoft to take losses which will be absorbed by online fees and higher game prices but no…

I remember when the PS3 and Xbox360 had just come out, and everyone was screaming from the rooftops about how PC gaming will just crash and burn. Not for a week or two, but for years after those boxes had been released.

So you're saying PC gaming survived that sustained direct threat only to be wiped out by cryptocurrency mining that isn't even concerned with gaming?

This is a silly exaggeration. In the long term, if the crypto market collapses the prices will come back to normal.

If it thrives instead, the GPU manufacturers will probably scale up their production lines to meet demand.

Or maybe a miracle will happen and we'll see some really good GPU manufacturers pop up who'll make the market more competitive.

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#64

Post by laythea »

jagger27 wrote: post #41
pram wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure I’d want a card that’s been at full utilization, 24 hours a day, for who knows how long.

I've read that thermal cycles do more damage than constant running.

Yep, this applies to most things. E.g Engines.

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#65

Post by inimino »

bandrami wrote: post #59
inimino wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of work is about consensus among mutually distrusting parties. It has approximately nothing to do with entropy. Of course there is some connection, but the simple "exchange" you're looking for does not exist.

> It has approximately nothing to do with entropy. Err.. it's removing surprisal from bit sequences. That's exactly what Shannon entropy is. There's even a boundary trade-off (which we're obviously trading well, well above) between Boltzmann and Shannon on this.

Yes, that's the "work". The value of that work is as part of a mechanism for enforcing consensus. To the question "does entropy tell us anything about the larger system" I am arguing that it does not (in any non-trivial way).

Obviously entropy is related to any computation we perform. It's just not going to give us any special insight into cryptocurrencies to point that out.

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#66

Post by kogepathic »

mlevental wrote: post #58
segmondy wrote: post #31

I wanted to buy 2 1080 for deep learning experiments, but that's going to have to wait. I picked up a used 32core 128gb server for $1000 recently... It's only a matter of time before these 1080 will be sold for pennies on the dollar. If your lively hood doesn't depend on it, wait.

from where might I ask did you buy that server

I don't have a link to that deal but buying quality used hardware isn't difficult or expensive.

I built a Quanta Open Compute node with 12 physical cores (24 logical with HT) and 96GB of RAM for around $350.

There are many companies selling Sandy/Ivy Bridge-EP Xeon servers for pennies to the dollar.

For example in the UK/EU: www.bargainhardware.co.uk/e5-2600-lga2011-series-machines

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#67

Post by bby »

fermienrico wrote: post #37
nn3 wrote: post #10

It's great. Once ethereum etc. crash we can buy used high end graphic cards cheap.

What is the basis for an overwhelming assumption on HN that Cryto will crash? I am genuinely curious. What specifics indicate that it will crash?

market being propped up by tether

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#68

Post by goda90 »

sundvor wrote: post #62
jakebasile wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gamers are complaining about why can't nVidia just ramp up their production. I don't see too much of that in gaming circles. It's understood that it would be risky as crypto will crash sooner than later. The anger in the PC community is almost exclusively directed at miners. Threads about it pop up on the daily, but what can we do? We could lobby NVIDIA/AMD to somehow implement restrictions on what the Gaming SKUs…

If the mining was to crash hard, it'd be a fantastic time to be a gamer with 2nd market GPU offerings. ;) Also, I bought my own 1080TI last May and have had it mining when PC not in use. It's already earned itself back, potentially speaking (haven't actually sold anything yet for real dollars). A single card isn't enough to bring anything solid in, but it's at least a foot in the door kind of thing, especially for th…

A card used for mining will have worn out fans and potentially damage from heat on it. You'll have to hope for really cheap used cards to make up for that.

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#69

Post by yuhong »

jakebasile wrote: post #15

I'm legitimately worried about the long term future of my hobby (PC gaming) at this point. Prices like this have a cascade effect because when less people can afford to build a PC and/or upgrade there's less incentive for developers and publishers to spend time on the platform. Consoles are shielded by the ability of Sony and Microsoft to take losses which will be absorbed by online fees and higher game prices but no…

There is a side effect in that the margins of prebuilt PCs should rise.

Re: Why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy

#70

Post by icelancer »

Funny that in this image in the article:

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/bare_...

The entire shelf is sold out of GPUs, but it's a near-lock that the RX550 2GB model for $71.xx had a higher ROI than any single card purchased for cryptocurrency mining.

Now, that being said, gamers (and to a lesser extent, deep learning researchers) need to shut up and enjoy a good thing while it lasts. Gamers who have 1080tis (who don't get close to their maximum performance, nor need it) just walked into a situation where they can print money for owning equipment they already have or would already buy - in their spare time when they aren't gaming.

It's very odd to watch a group of people bitch that they are handed a bunch of free money, but gamers manage to do it.

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